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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Sinners must DO something TO BE SAVED!

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 Re:

Quote:
Repent of what?

Is it not unbelief?

First believe, 2nd salvation, 3rd then we know what to repent of and how.



Amen.

 2007/6/28 10:20
InTheLight
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Joined: 2003/7/31
Posts: 2736
Phoenix, Arizona USA

 Re:

Quote:
The "accepts" part causes ths rest of the sentnce in the header to go in a thousand directions. There is not any ONE thing that can be said. I must recite a thousand sentences to get anywhere in this concept the way it is worded.Ever read pilgrams progress? The wicket gate was not the first thing. Just this dummies 2 cents.



Amen! If we're going to talk about salvation there truly is only ONE thing that can be said. It is the only word written over the gate of heaven, GRACE.

Grace through Jesus Christ always has been and always will be the only hope of mankind. Great indeed is the mystery of godliness.

In Christ,

Ron


_________________
Ron Halverson

 2007/6/28 10:41Profile
roaringlamb
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 1519
Santa Cruz California

 Re:

How about our Lord's words that speak of this
"No man can come to me except the Father which hath sent me draw him" John 6:44

Or these
John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [b]even to them that believe on his name:
John 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, [i]nor of the will of man, but of God.[/i][/b]

A man cannot believe, or repent without the Spirit giving him the ability, because left to his own, no man would. Man does not care if he offends God until he is a child of God indwelt by the Spirit, thus he is truly convicted of sin. Now I am not speaking of those who repent because they have failed their own standards, or moral code, but instead I am speaking of those who hear the word, are convicted by the Spirit of their sin against God, and repent by a truly God birthed sorrow for sin.

Even our repentance cannot be seen as what justifies us before God. Christ alone is our justification before God, not one of our works, for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. Though repentance is a fruit of regeneration as the once dead sinner now sees the folly of his sin against Almighty God, and also sees the greatness of the Christ through the gospel as being his only hope to ever please this holy God whom he has sinned against.

The Gospel truly is good news to its hearers(those whose ears have been opened to hear) when we present it properly, this is why it is very important to know soteriology, or how one is saved, and also [i]ordo salutis[/i] or the order of salvation.

Here's a hint...
We are justified by faith alone, by grace alone, through Christ alone, that God alone receives the glory, and all this is deduced from Scripture alone.

Or for you Latin buffs :-P
Sola Fide(faith)
Sola Gratia(grace)
Solas Christus(Christ)
Soli Deo Gloria(to God alone be the glory)
Sola Scriptura(scripture)


_________________
patrick heaviside

 2007/6/28 13:04Profile









 Re:

I'm no calvinist... but its amazing how God still seems to get his work done despite the fact that his children cant even agree on how that work gets done!

In Christ - Jim

 2007/6/28 13:06
hmmhmm
Member



Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4991
Sweden

 Re:

Quote:

jimdied2sin wrote:
I'm no calvinist... but its amazing how God still seems to get his work done despite the fact that his children cant even agree on how that work gets done!

In Christ - Jim



:-)

[url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=6139&forum=36&start=0&viewmode=flat&order=0]Calvanism vs Arminianism[/url]


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CHRISTIAN

 2007/6/28 13:18Profile
roaringlamb
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 1519
Santa Cruz California

 Re:

Quote:
I'm no calvinist... but its amazing how God still seems to get his work done despite the fact that his children cant even agree on how that work gets done!



And at the end of the day if everyone who is born of God is honest with themselves, they will say that God did something first to bring them to Christ.

I hope we understand that this world in which we live was created for the manifestation of Christ. The bible is one long story of God's redemption through types and figures culminating in the Sun of righteousness appearing to men.

I love the words, "but God" especially how Paul uses them in Ephesians 2. You were dead in sin, but God gave you life, you were children of wrath, but God adopted you, you were children of the devil, but God granted you a new birth.

If we're honest, we'll realize God made the first move, and then we will rejoice in what our God has worked!!!


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patrick heaviside

 2007/6/28 13:28Profile
hmmhmm
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Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4991
Sweden

 Re:

maybe you have coverd this already? but isent it also God who makes it possible to repent? i think of this verse

Romans 2:4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?


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CHRISTIAN

 2007/6/28 14:30Profile
roaringlamb
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 1519
Santa Cruz California

 Re:

Quote:
but isent it also God who makes it possible to repent?



Yes, God the Holy Spirit enables through regeneration and grants ability to see sin and Christ properly, then produces contrition and repentance. True repentance is brought by the work of the Spirit as one of His offices is to convict of sin.

This of course can happen in an instant, or through abit of time(not saying this person is justified, as repentance is key to justification). It's not really a black and white area of which we can give a timeline. We preach Christ and His great work upon Calvary, and let the Spirit do as He will.


_________________
patrick heaviside

 2007/6/28 14:55Profile









 Re:

Here's a great comment/question someone posted to Jesse regarding this article on Jesse's site:

[color=FF0000]I want to make a brief comment.
God does accept sinners as they are. But not in the way you think I mean it. Sinners can come to God as sinners and repent(have a change of mind about their sin) and He will change them. Some people say you have to stop sinning before you come to God. I would say that stop sinning before you come to God is just as much a false gospel as "you can continue in sin and really be saved"

While we were yet sinners Christ died for us!


P.S If while preaching at a campus and a homosexual drug addict says that they have been convicted by your words and believe their sin is evil against God, and they want to repent and be born again. Do you then tell them to go home and not sin for 6 months and then God will accept them?[/color]

 2007/6/28 15:50
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 No Sin Will Enter Heaven

Quote:
We must preach the Kingdom, or Government of God! (Luke 4:43, Luke 9:2, Luke 9:60) We must preach the “gospel of the Kingdom”, or the gospel of God’s Government! (Matt 4:23, Matt 9:35, Matt 24:14, Mark 1:14)



I think I would prefer to preach the Kingdom of God and the Gospel of the Kingdom.

Quote:
And in this Kingdom there is a King (1Tim 6:15, Heb 7:1, Rev 17:14, Rev 19:16), and this King sent His son to die for his rebellious citizens (John 3:16, Luke 20:13), that those who cease their rebellion (Isaiah 1:16), putting an end to their sinning (Luke 13:3), may have gracious pardon and mercy given unto them for all of their past sins (Rom 3:24-26), being washed from all their old sins (2Pet 1:9), that they may be restored into a right relationship with their Sovereign whom they have been rebelling against! (Heb 8:12, Heb 10:17)



Perhaps the greatest disagreement I have with Finney is his assertion that God sent Jesus to die, [u]not[/u] for our sins, but to make an example out of Him of how bad sin is. Man needs to see how bad sin is- so I'll send my son to die on the cross to show them how bad I hate sin and what a sinner truly deserves. That is nonsense of the highest order. In Finney's time public hangings were commonplace. In Jesus' day crucifixion was commonplace. Untold numbers of members of the Jewish Freedom Movement were crucified.

Finney did not believe Jesus died in our place. He did not believe in the atonement as it is known in evangelicalism. His view of the atonement either [i]caused[/i] him to take on a "salvation by sanctification" soteriology or it was [i]convenient [/i]to a desire to strip people completely of assurance of salvation apart from perfection. In either case, I think holding such a view personally and ministering with that belief would be one thing; but to promote such a view is something different.

Quote:
And it’s true, Savior hood without Lordship is a selfish gospel; Jesus represented as your servant rather then as your Lord and Sovereign is a heretical and grievous error! Yet it is often represented as a heretical and grievous error the other way around! But we must present the Sovereignty of God in conversion! That is, we must declare the requirement of the Lordship of Christ in salvation!



As a believer in Lordship Salvation I have to ask if there is any salvation for the child of God if their last act on earth was a sin? It seems to me that in this doctrine Entire Sanctification is directly related to salvation; which to me, is the most grievous to be borne doctrine in the history of the world. Who can shoulder the weight of a system of belief that places a person's salvation completely in their own hands and based on whether or not they stay in a constant state of repentance.

Keep in mind that I view certain sins as utterly dangerous to the soul; yet, if Entire Sanctification is required for salvation then who will be saved? In this system there is no such thing as Justification by faith. Salvation is strictly based upon whether or not God has forgiven the person for their latest sin. This probably sounds nuts to some people reading this, but let me assure you that there are people who absolutely believe if they die with one sin that is not "under the blood" they are going to hell. That is to say- if they die with an unconfessed sin they go to hell as if they were the vilest of sinners.

Let me say with a clear conscience that I know personally that this approach to salvation does not cause people to live for God. What it does is the [u]exact opposite[/u]. The reason being is that while they were 'Christians' they repented every day and had to keep their sins forgiven. Now, they don't go to church, they don't serve God and they [i]believe[/i] if they ask for forgiveness just before they die- then they will be just as saved as the person trying to live right who has to ask for forgiveness of 'something' almost every day or week also. So instead of serving God they view their basic need as forgiveness of sins. That's it. No relationship with God or anything. Where did they get that idea?

From preachers that told them that being a Christian meant that you did not sin. Never mind the fact that salvation not only frees from Sin, but [i]reconciles us to God[/i] in a real and genuine way. So the emphasis skews the view of Christianity in their mind until all they think about is living Holy and have no real desire to walk in communion with God. This is how a lot of these off-shoot Christian sects move to the countryside bound up in legalism and religion without God.

Preoccupation with sin is deadly. Living holy is a necessity. What (who) then defines holiness? If holiness is walking in the Spirit- then why the preoccupation with sin? Later in life Finney himself admitted that he could not 'live' in the realm of revival preaching. Revival preaching is a starting point. A steady diet of it over time will wear you out. We need to learn to walk with God and stop living in an unnatural and ungodly fear. If we are the sons of God through our having received the Spirit of adoption- why are we (me) in so much fear all the time? Will ABBA smite me into hell for one slip up? Not that I would desire to slip or sin- but having a willingness to admit reality I believe I will in some way sin again. God will deal with me as a Father. I have to say, some of these doctrines make the Devil himself look merciful in comparison to how God is sometimes depicted. :-?


_________________
Robert Wurtz II

 2007/6/28 22:54Profile





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