| 2007/6/23 7:06|
I think we have to be careful here that we are not isolating individual scriptures but finding out what the whole of scripture teaches on this. So yes scriptures does warn that if we continue habitually in carnality we will not inhereit the kingdom of God, but can we take that and then jump to conclusions and condemn every professing Christians as lost because there is sin in their life?
Dont get me wrong, i believe that repentance is neccessary for salvation, but it is interesting that as has already been mentioned, Paul did not disqualify the Corinthians as non Christians, but rather was saying in effect, you are not living up to your profession, you are imature, grow up- this is not the normal Christian life!
I am concerned that some brothers who have posted on here are unknowingly erring towards legalsim and a works based religion whilst claiming to to trust and rest fully in the finished work of Christ. There is a great danger brothers of ourselves becoming spiritually proud when we look at other condemn professing Christians as carnal. It seemed too me as though one or two brothers here were enjoying quoting scriptures like 1 Cor 6:9, i dont think that is the spirit of Christ at all. I think Paul's original letters would have been smudged on those verses because of the tears he cried as he wrote it.
I can say this because i have been there myself. I used to almost take joy in condeming professing Christians, because it gave me a comlplex of superiority.
What is our motivation for sanctification? If it is anything other than 'I desire to become sanctified because Jesus loved me and gave Himself for me', it is wrong.
The only way we can become sanctified is if it is in the knowledge that we are saved and justified because of teh finished work of Christ our Saviour, and in the light of that believing that He died that we might become daily more like Him and that spurs us on toward holiness.
If we are striving for holiness and sanctification for any other reason we are nothing but legalists and i think we have totally missed it.
If we believe that our salvation depends on our being perfect, then we will be striving to be holy so that we can know we are saved. But we can know we are saved because Christ has died, and let that spur us on to fight against sin in our lives.
What i am trying to say is that is we look only to ourselves for assurance of our salvation rather than to the finished work of Christ we will be misguided.
I know some will try to pervert this doctrine, but salvation is through trusting in Christ alone, and if that has happened He will see that we go through sanctification. Even if there are set backs and we fall or even backslide, we should be concerned and alarmed but not give up hope, because Christ is our rightsouness, therefore in the light of His mercy, confess, get up and look to Him for sanctification.
| 2007/6/23 7:17||Profile|
you said it well.The legalism here is rampant. my life in Christ should be a love affair w/Him, NOT a bible straight jacket.
The "sinless life concept perplexess me.
Its not My ability to walk sinless that keeps me "in the faith",its my ability to repent.
The sinless one lives inside me therefore I dont sin. BUT if I do I have an advocate,JESUS. If I am born again I am not of this world.I am an alien.I am not in opposition to the law, I now LOVE HIS law.
I see lots of bros on here that think they know their bible.And maybe they do.
WE all err. We all walk a little sideways.
But if we must err lets err on the side of love! Agreed?
| 2007/6/23 9:18||Profile|
very well said here4him...amen
| 2007/6/23 9:41||Profile|
| Re: Carnal Christians|
I learned the definition of a carnal believer and a Spirit-filled believer. The Spirit-filled believer is controlled by the Spirit of God. The carnal believer is man-centered...Oh that we would all be completely surrendered to God and controlled by the Holy Spirit every minute of every day!!
Yes. And Yes again!
Even though most of my hours in every day is spent in God centered stuff, yet I do not yield and submit to the Holy Spirit all through those hours. I wish I could...I wish I knew how to, but it seems it is a thing worked out in the tiniest increments, and that my growth in actually hearing and obeying the Holy Spirit is a task mired in my own nature.
Thank God and Jesus that we do not have to rest on our works, but on His.
| 2007/6/23 10:04||Profile|
According to Scripture,what are the characteristics of a christian who is a "babe in Christ?"
| 2007/6/24 17:31||Profile|
It seemed too me as though one or two brothers here were enjoying quoting scriptures like 1 Cor 6:9, i dont think that is the spirit of Christ at all. I think Paul's original letters would have been smudged on those verses because of the tears he cried as he wrote it.
I do enjoy quoting the word of God :o) Funny that you would assign motives to it and make such an unrightous judgment :o(
In Christ - Jim
Titus 2 (ESV)
11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people,
12 training us to renounce ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright, and godly lives in the present age,
13 waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ,
14 who gave himself for us to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people for his own possession who are zealous for good works.
15 Declare these things; exhort and rebuke with all authority. Let no one disregard you.
| 2007/6/24 21:13|
Santa Cruz California
Here is an article by Winkie Pratney exposing the error of the "carnal christian" doctrine:
He also teaches that God and satan are involved in a cosmic struggle in which each side is equal, and vying for the souls of men. Of course Scripture does not teach that satan is equal to God in any way.
God pursues those who will be saved, and they will be saved regardless of satan's tactics, as satan is a created being who is subservient to God.
| 2007/6/24 21:14||Profile|
Obediance to Jesus Christ is not legalism. Jesus said that only those who did the will of His father would enter into the kingdom, not everyone who calls Him Lord. From a contrite heart I would plead with anyone who has any known willful sin in their life to repent.
In Christ - Jim
| 2007/6/24 21:23|
| Re: CARNAL CHRISTIAN?|
There was a battle in our heart and Jesus cleaned the Temple [our heart ] and threw Satan [our rebellious spirit out] and garnished our hearts with spiritual gifts [righteousness, faith, charity, peace, that we may call on the God out of a pure heart.. Satan is the spirit of this world that places confidence in the flesh man and not in God. Your flesh is under a death sentence from a perfect God and His perfect Law and the sentence will never be repealed. But a contrite heart and a broken spirit leads to the Door. God has turned weakness of the flesh into to victory by spiritual faith in God and not ourselves. We all know God, there is no excuse.
| 2007/6/26 6:40||Profile|