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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Do I need to be baptized before I am saved?

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crsschk
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Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re:

Hope all this is a help to you and not a cause for more confusion. I agree with what has been posted, certainly in line with John MacArthur.

I was a bit confused over the whole issue for awhile myself. Though I had been saved for a number of years, I had put off water baptism, primarily because of the church I was attending at the time. Not exactly sound doctrine there.

But it was something that I felt I really wanted to do, less for any particular slant or demand or that it had some kind of bearing on my salvation.
But primarily because Jesus said to do it and because of the symbolism of burying the old life and representing the new. That outward expression.

I said all that to say this.
Last year I finally was baptized, full immersion at my most recent church.

It was wonderful!

You couldn't wipe the smile off my face the rest of that day.

It did seem strange to have the pastor go over the "Do you believe that..." and so forth, in fact he even said "We know that you do" :-)
since he was familiar with me...but it was just great to say it out loud, publicly.

A very memorable day.


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Mike Balog

 2004/4/15 20:40Profile
HakkaMin
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Joined: 2004/4/12
Posts: 60
Taiwan

 Re:

Just another simple thought that might be worth mentioning. Though I don't believe the Bible teaches that baptism is a condition for salvation, I feel that it does indicate that baptism is a command of Christ to be obeyed. In Mark 16:16 and Matthew 28:19, we can see that Jesus expects His disciples to be baptized and to go and baptize others. (That this was understood by the disciples to be water baptism is seen in the story of Philip and the Ethiopian eunuch.) And, of course, all the commands of Christ are to be approached by true believers as serious and applicable to their lives. Though baptism doesn't save, it is important. And the person who claims to follow Jesus - and is aware of His command to be baptized - will joyfully follow through and be baptized as evidence of this claim to the Lordship of Christ. (Then - as crsschk expressed so well - the fruit of such obedience is a smile you can't wipe off your face for the rest of the day.) Bless you as you step out in obedience to Him!


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Gregg Dennington

 2004/4/15 22:33Profile
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 Re:

Quote:
Though I don't believe the Bible teaches that baptism is a condition for salvation, I feel that it does indicate that baptism is a command of Christ to be obeyed.


I would have to concure with this statement. I think it just comes down to simple obedience. Its quite similar to the breaking of bread and drinking of wine, we do it not to be saved in and of themselves but as a simple act of obedience to God. And as Mike expressed there is a simple child-like joy by walking in obedience to Christ in these things.

Myself I have never been baptised with water, The presbyterian Church considered the dedication I had when a child suffiecent, in the past few years God has taught me differently through His spirit and Word and I will when I get the proper opportunity get a full-immersion :-P What a wonderful thing it is to die to self and rise and walk with Christ in newness of life.


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2004/4/15 22:50Profile
InTheLight
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Joined: 2003/7/31
Posts: 2741
Phoenix, Arizona USA

 Re:

Quote:
Its quite similar to the breaking of bread and drinking of wine, we do it not to be saved in and of themselves but as a simple act of obedience to God.



Along these same lines, Art Katz has some enlightening comments on baptism;


At the River: Lydia and the Word of God

And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard us: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul. (Acts 16:14)

How many times have we truly attended to the things which have been spoken by the teachers whom God has sent us? Has there ever been a generation more indulged, spiritually speaking, than this one? With all the knowledge pouring in from speakers, tapes, and literature, where is the accompanying maturity and growth?

It almost seems as if we should call a moratorium and let there be no more speaking until we have caught up in our experience to what we have already heard. We think that the whole purpose of our Christian existence is to be called together in meetings, that we might hear more "teaching." It was not so from the beginning.

Lydia, whose heart was opened by he Lord, attended to the things which were spoken by Paul. I know she attended, because her hearing eventuated in her acting: in the very next line we read, "And when she was baptized ?" (verse 15a). If you say, "Well, big deal, what?s baptism?" maybe you need a Jewish guy to remind you of its enormous profundity; it is the ultimate act of separation and commitment.

Unsaved and benighted Jewish people often have, in a real sense, a greater grasp of the meaning of baptism than many of those in the faith; somewhere in the depths of their souls, they know that it is truly a burial unto death. A dear friend of mine was raised in an Orthodox Jewish home in Sweden. When he became a believer in Jesus, the news was not well received, but those repercussions were nothing compared to the family?s reaction to the news of his baptism. Although he had been a beloved son, his parents conducted the traditional burial service for him.

After ten years, my friend called his father on the phone; the father asked who it was and my friend said, "This is your son." The older man answered, "My son is dead," and hung up. May that old Jewish man come to a complete knowledge of what happened to his son:

Know ye not, that so many of us were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized unto His death?

Therefore we are buried with Him by baptism unto death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. (Romans 6:3, 4)

I am so in love with baptism that you might well call me Art the Baptist. If I can?t find a pool in which to immerse you, I?ll plunge you into your own bathtub, or into mine. Recently, after a meeting in Germany, eight believers went into the bathtub, one after the other. I did not come with any intention of doing such a thing, but they knew, after the Lord had spoken to them, that there was something required from them, an act of radical separation that could only be accomplished by going under the waters of judgement and death, and rising to newness of life in Him.

In the baptism performed in spirit and truth, we are called not to a mindless religious ceremony, but to an unconditional commitment to the living Christ. Lydia knew that Paul and Silas would be leaving town in a couple days, and that she would remain there with the stigma of public baptism upon her. May God raise up Lydias for our generation, precious children of the Lord who hear His way and do it, despite the cost.


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Ron Halverson

 2004/4/15 23:55Profile
eagleswings
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Joined: 2003/12/30
Posts: 297
Connecticut, USA

 Re:




Quote:
"...I am particularly concerned about these Bible verses:

"MARK 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
MARK 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

"....Need a scriptural answer!

"I really need your help and prayers! I want the RIGHT way to surrender fully to GOD."


John,
Perhaps this might be of use to you. It is a link to the third chapter of Watchman Nee's book, "Love Not the World". The chapter is titled "A World Under Water". Nee speaks to your request for a scriptural answer, as well as your longing for an honest and truthful surrender. In the final analysis, only you can decide whether Nee as a teacher has "rightfully divided the word of truth" for you.
http://www.worldinvisible.com/library/nee/lovenottheworld/chapter%203.htm

There is some additional amplification of the whole matter in chapter 5 of Nee's "The Normal Christian Life". The chapter is titled "The Divide of the Cross".
http://www.worldinvisible.com/library/nee/nchrlife/normal05.htm

In Christ's love,

Roger








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Roger P.

 2004/4/16 0:41Profile
bigdaveusa
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Joined: 2003/6/13
Posts: 49


 Re: Do I need to be baptized before I am saved?

Do you need to be baptized before you are saved? NO.

Should you get baptized? YES.

MARK 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
MARK 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Look carefully, he that believeth not shall be damned. Baptism is just an outward sign of an inward transaction. Just like a holy and godly life is a outward sign of the inward transaction of the Baptism of the Holy Spirit.
Listen, forget the theology lesson. You say you want to surrender? Then surrender already.
You sure sound repentant....do you believe?
Do you really believe? If not, ask the Lord to help you believe. The good Lord has you right where He wants you:
right in the palm of His hand.
If none of this makes sense to you, PRAY, and ask God to explain it. HE will.


Psalm 145:19 He will fulfil the desire of them that fear him: he also will hear their cry, and will save them.



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Dave

 2004/4/18 4:44Profile
nekaras
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Joined: 2004/4/19
Posts: 12


 Re:

When we read the bible, we tend to find scriptures we have never heard. You seem to have found some of these. When the bible says something, we must follow. Baptism is something the early christians did if you look through history and the account of the beginning of Christ's church (Acts). I can give you some references if you are interested from The Ante-Nicene fathers.

 2004/4/19 20:44Profile
thevoice
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Joined: 2004/4/13
Posts: 16


 Re:

Thank you soo much for all the different angles you have brought to this question. The Bible verse below makes it clear WHY one should be baptized.

"ROMANS 6:3Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
ROMANS 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
ROMANS 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also [in the likeness] of [his] resurrection:
ROMANS 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with [him], that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
ROMANS 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
ROMANS 6:8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
ROMANS 6:9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
ROMANS 6:10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
ROMANS 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

I just found a pastor that will baptize me according to ACTS 2:38 "Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."

I am looking forward to the expeerince.

God Bless
John


nekaras wrote:
When we read the bible, we tend to find scriptures we have never heard. You seem to have found some of these. When the bible says something, we must follow. Baptism is something the early christians did if you look through history and the account of the beginning of Christ's church (Acts). I can give you some references if you are interested from The Ante-Nicene fathers.



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John Williams

 2004/4/21 14:11Profile
nekaras
Member



Joined: 2004/4/19
Posts: 12


 Re:

thevoice,
That's awesome! I'm curious where you live and the pastors name and what church it is. I have not run into many churchs who baptize for the forgiveness of sins.

 2004/4/21 23:08Profile
CJaKfOrEsT
Member



Joined: 2004/3/31
Posts: 901
Melbourne, Australia

 Re:

I agree with Big Dave, "Do you need to..No...should You...Yes.." Two thoughts on the matter, my pastor frequently uses the illustration of baptism and burial. He says, "When sin comes to tempt me, I can say, 'You see that grave, over there? The old Craig Anderson (his name) is dead. You've got the wrong guy.'"
Another thought, the guy who repented on the cross. Did they pull him down to "baptise" him before he could "be with (Jesus) in paradise"? Mmmmmm...


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Aaron Ireland

 2004/5/6 8:06Profile





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