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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Does God ever contradict Himself?

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 Does God ever contradict Himself?

This came out of another thread, (the one about women teaching) because it's relevant to more than the subject of that thread.

I'm looking for basic principles here, the heavenly roots of things.

A while back I started a thread, which is also relevant, re the Temple and Tabernacle in relation to the original heavenly "Pattern.

I believe that everything God commands and does on earth is according to original heavenly principles.

Sometimes this can APPEAR as if the Lord is being inconsistant with His own Word and command!

I said (in the thread about women teaching)

Quote:
The principle governs the application, not the other way around!

In that case the [u]principle[/u] was that no-one should usurp authority (in this case a woman usurping a man's). The [u]application[/u] was not allowing a woman to teach.

Another example is the fact that JESUS repeatedly "broke" the Sabbath.

Was HE as a man, an observant Jew, (a “mere nobody” in the [b][u]God-given[/u][/b] religious hierarchy!) rebelling against His Father’s Laws? The Pharisees and priests certainly thought so!

But was He? What was the principle here? The eternal Sabbath rest? The rest that brings all things into divine order, into perfect completeness, as when God finished His work of Creation? So Jesus, on the Sabbath day, went about restoring the Sabbath rest into sick bodies and tormented minds and souls.

Then again, Rahab and Ruth. God "broke" His own commands for their sake. Rahab was a Canaanite, and a prostitute; she should have been killed with the rest of the wicked inhabitants of Jericho, [u][i]as God Himself had commanded[/i][/u]. Rahab actually lived in the walls that fell down – only the Lord could have preserved that particular section! In saving her and her family, was He being inconsistent with His own Word????

Ruth was a Moabitess; the Lord said that Moabites should not be incorporated in Israel “to the tenth generation” (Meaning [i][b]never[/b][/i]!). Deuteronomy 23:3.

Yet both were ancestors of Christ!

So how did they get in???


These are just a few examples, no doubt there are many more.

Anyone?


In Him


Jeannette





 2007/6/21 14:39









 Re: Does God ever contradict Himself?

No ! To the question that is.

Jesus told them that the Sabbath was made for man and not man for the Sabbath. And by then, the Pharisees had added so many more laws to the Sabbath, I forget the exact amount and more have been added since in the Talmud etc., to where they couldn't even use a toothpick after dinner.
Jesus was the Sabbath Rest Incarnate, so He couldn't break Himself. He came to fulfill the law. Just a brief answer here.

About the 2 women : The important thing to look at is how GOD commanded Israel to treat "the strangers" among them who joined themselves to God's People ... as if they were one of them.

Rahab and Ruth joined themselves in that way to Israel and also, because He died also for the Gentiles ... His plan always being those two olive trees becoming one ... so that's why they are in His geneology.

Please excuse this answer on the run ... but no matter what the circumstances - I'd have to say that He never contradicts Himself because He 'is' The Word. Not one jot or tittle shall pass, etc. .... Forever Oh Lord Thy Word is settled in Heaven.

For now, does this answer anything you've asked ?

Take good care.
Love!
Annie

 2007/6/21 15:15
roaringlamb
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 1519
Santa Cruz California

 Re:

Ruth and Rahab are beautiful pictures of God's sovereign working to bring the Messiah into the world. He sovereignly caused the word to come to Naomi to draw her back to Jerusalem, there of course Ruth meets Boaz the kindred redeemer!!! What a wonderful, wonderful God!!


_________________
patrick heaviside

 2007/6/21 15:28Profile









 Re:

Quote:

GrannieAnnie wrote:
No ! To the question that is.

I agree of course!
Quote:
...Jesus was the Sabbath Rest Incarnate, so He couldn't break Himself. He came to fulfill the law.

Good point, really like that!

Quote:
About the 2 women : The important thing to look at is how GOD commanded Israel to treat "the strangers" among them who joined themselves to God's People ... as if they were one of them.

Rahab and Ruth joined themselves in that way to Israel and also, because He died also for the Gentiles ... His plan always being those two olive trees becoming one ... so that's why they are in His geneology.

But He made official exceptions to those from Jericho(kill them ALL!) and Moabites!(exclude them ALL) How do you explain that?

Quote:
I'd have to say that He never contradicts Himself because He 'is' The Word. Not one jot or tittle shall pass, etc. .... Forever Oh Lord Thy Word is settled in Heaven.

AMEN! I believe the key to the matter is "IN HEAVEN".

Someone said that all Biblical covenants are reflection of the everlasting Covenant, which is established in heaven.

Another illustration of the same principle I'm seeking to clarify, with the help of you all.

Blessings

Jeannette

 2007/6/21 16:10
IRONMAN
Member



Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 Yes He does and what about it?

Brethren
Greetings in Jesus' Name by whose Blood we are Justified before God. AMEN.

this is an interesting question and i would say God can and does contradict Himself but we must be careful not to assume that His Contradiction means the same thing as our own, namely that He made a mistake. God makes no mistakes but everything is calculated to One End, the Revelation of His Manifold Wisdom to the princes and powers through the Church. You see the powers think they rule the world, however they do in as much as God allows which means God has mapped out all they will do according to the Plan He had to Reveal this Manifold Wisdom. it's the Ultimate Thumbing of His Nose at the powers... i think of the incident with Peter and the sheet with all the animals. Peter refused to eat them citing that they were unclean and God Himself had said so and forbidden the Jews to eat certain animals for that reason. However God says a curious thing, that the animals were not to be called unclean because He made them. Then there is the matter of Ezekiel being fed by ravens...unclean birds. Before that he was with a gentile woman staying with her for some time and even laid on her son when he died which according to the law is a defilement.

These statements are Contradictory (speaking of the Sovereignty of God and not contradictory (God saying oops i messed up)Dear saints it seems to me much of our view on things is warped because it is a worldly view, even as it pertains to words...what does the word mean to God? i think if we sought God more on what His standard is for the meaning of words, we would see things quite differently. The standards of the world change subtly the meaning of words while the Standard of God is unwavering.For example, God is The Despot, ie His Rule is Absolute, nothing happens outside of His will. We tend to think immediately of someone like Saddam Hussein. See how the world has influenced the meaning of words? God has been showing me this of late and has had me (He is still working on this) capitalizing words which pertain to Him and not those which pertain to the world. for example Blood and blood, justify and Justify.

That certain animals are unclean was said of God, that all animals are clean was said of God also and the two are Contradictory which is to say that God is Sovereign. God doesn't fit into our mold or into what we think or understand Him to be but He is something Other. To start to know God as we ought requires an abandoning of what we think we know about Him. i say this as one who has had paradigm after paradigm of God shattered before my eyes, things very dear to me which had become idols and replaced with Paradigm after Paradigm...i have begun to learn that i don't know squat about God and that is a blessed thing because when i know nothing of Him, i know Everything. This is to say that God can show me about Himself when i reckon myself to be completely empty of any knowledge of Him.

Our God can do as He pleases. often times it goes against our understanding, it forces us out of our comfort zone and we don't like that. it's not comfortable to be shown you are wrong and much less so to have to learn the truth or Truth as it were because the Truth opposes all that we are and reminds us of the necessity of the Cross which is an utter and complete death of us, lock stock and barrel. the putting away of all we hold dear, all the knowledge we have attained, all that we are and indeed our very reality for something which is fleeting and less attractive than what we know. We are stepping out of the only reality we know into The Reality which we know nothing about and can only come to Know it if we walk in it, there is no preview to check it out, either you get in or stay out. This Ultimacy is the Signiature of God, it's Him saying "you can get with this or you can get with that."

God in His Sovereignty has afforded us Salvation by Christ out of Grace and Mercy. In His Justice, we could all have easily been cast into hell and He would not be diminished in anywise. God as Maker of All and Sustainer of All, indeed He is All in All reserves the Divine Right to do whatever He wants and i think that bothers us to the degree we want to lean on ourselves and not Him. This Sovereignty of His supercedes our won sovereignty (will and all)and this disturbs us because it means we have nothing to offer Him but must indeed trust in Him and lean on Him 100%...i bless God He is Sovereign!

Grace and Peace be ours in Jesus' Name. AMEN.


_________________
Farai Bamu

 2007/6/21 18:06Profile
IRONMAN
Member



Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 Re:

sis Jeannette

Greetings in Jesus' Name by Whose Blood we are Justified. AMEN.

Quote:
But He made official exceptions to those from Jericho(kill them ALL!) and Moabites!(exclude them ALL) How do you explain that?



This again is His Sovereignty at work which sees to His Plan Marching on in spite of our failings...Talk about having a Grip on something...The Blessed thing about His Sovereignty comes out in Romans 8:28 which says that we Christians can't lose no matter what. This is not an excuse to go nuts and be irresponsible (God Forbid!) but rather to press into Him all the more because He works all things to the Good...

don't you just Love Him?

Grace and Peace be ours in Jesus' Name. AMEN.


_________________
Farai Bamu

 2007/6/21 18:11Profile





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