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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Can women preach/teach in church?

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philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Geraldine
I'm glad it was a constructive provocation to you. ;-)

Quote:
I don't want to rub salt in a very deep and open wound but i can't help but notice that this whole arguement is mainly between men and a lot of women seem comfortable with what they personally believe. Just an interesting point i noticed.


I think this is true and often muddies the waters for people trying to discover what the truth is. I think that sometimes men have a bad conscience about the whole thing. They (or at least some of them) have no real objection to a woman preaching but they have the niggles of our beloved brother Paul's words in their heads too. So they are in a tension. Background often has a lot to do with it, I think. I have discovered that men with a Muslim cultural background (I don't say Muslims or ex-Muslims specifically) often have a struggle with high-profile women in a church context. I have worked with colleagues from the middle east in particular and this is almost a 'no-go' area.

For some years I worked in an interdenominational Bible school. Around our seminar table we could have students from 10 nations. It drove me to a very basic question 'whatis Christianity and what is Culture?' I certainly didn't want to teach UK culture! I recall a wonderful discussion on lawful foods where the fact that the East African ate ants was a nauseating discovery to the Chinese, and the discovery that the Chinese ate snakes was equally nauseous to the East Africans. The fact the Fins around the table ate blood pancakes was regarded as almost unbelievable. We then have to ask the questions 'what is Christianity?' as an irreducable minimum and wherein does our fellowship lie.

This is partly why I don't 'belong' to any specific 'school of theology'. I think such 'schools' are very often the consequence of culture, that is 'the prevailing Christian culture' where they grew.

To be fair to the men, I think we sometimes get what I call the 'headless woman' syndrome. In a fractured society women have often had to be 'assertive' and the man is no longer a symbol of protection but more a threat. Sometimes sisters from broken marriages or bad fathers find a new lease of life in a church fellowship, but their continuing lack of a proper male role model conspires to make them strident in their independence. I can give no full explanation but I see from the scriptures that, for reasons best known to Himself, God highly values a 'meek and quiet spirit' in the woman. Some can preach and lead with such a spirit, for others the very function of preaching or leading seems to militate against such a 'meek and quiet spirit'.

We are blessed in our home church here to have many godly women with 'meek and quiet' spirits. Their frequent 'lead' in prayer, prophecy, tongues, interpretation, worship, testimony, preaching and even some teaching is a rich source of blessing to me and others. Perhaps it is because they know they are free to function in such a way that they have no need to fight for their rights or to prove their point.


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2004/10/7 4:59Profile









 Re:

Quote:
Perhaps it is because they know they are free to function in such a way that they have no need to fight for their rights or to prove their point.


This is exactly what i was thinking! It's hard for some men to understand because they will never be in the womans shoes so to speak which is why the debate will always go on until our Lord returns. Even though we don't intentionally go out to offend on these sensitive issues there will always be people offended even if we speak in the right spirit with love. You can't win on these topics not that it's a competition anyway. I always think to myself what God must be thinking.
In his love, Geraldine

 2004/10/7 5:42
Nasher
Member



Joined: 2003/7/28
Posts: 404
Watford, UK

 Re:

Question, is a woman allowed to "speak" to the congregation in a formal church meeting and "teach" them about a certain passage, expounding the scriptures etc.


_________________
Mark Nash

 2004/10/7 5:52Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Hi Nasher,

Quote:
Question, is a woman allowed to "speak" to the congregation in a formal church meeting and "teach" them about a certain passage, expounding the scriptures etc.



On the basis of my long, long, earlier post to Geraldine (the one that talks about the Aorist Infinitive versus the Present Infinitive) I would say 'yes'.. occasionally, perhaps even frequently, but not routinely.

[i]Mark, could you print off that posting ( 2004/10/6 9:52) and give a copy to David C? I would like to hear his views.[/i]


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Ron Bailey

 2004/10/7 6:04Profile
Nasher
Member



Joined: 2003/7/28
Posts: 404
Watford, UK

 Re:

Sure, it was so good that I gave a copy to Doug M last night!


_________________
Mark Nash

 2004/10/7 6:27Profile
Nasher
Member



Joined: 2003/7/28
Posts: 404
Watford, UK

 Re:

Quote:
On the basis of my long, long, earlier post to Geraldine (the one that talks about the Aorist Infinitive versus the Present Infinitive) I would say 'yes'.. occasionally, perhaps even frequently, but not routinely.



Hi Ron, the difference between doing something frequently and routinely could be a very grey area.

Would you say that your preaching at the mission is a routine?


_________________
Mark Nash

 2004/10/7 6:42Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
Hi Ron, the difference between doing something frequently and routinely could be a very grey area.

Would you say that your preaching at the mission is a routine?

hi Nasher, yes I suppose it is a grey area. I am basing what I say here on the simple fact of Greek infinitive tense.

The Aorist Infinitive implies 'to preach'
The Present Infinitive imples 'to continually preach'
The Past Infinitive implies 'to have preached'

In our text Let a woman in quietness learn in all subjection, and a woman I do not suffer to teach, nor to rule a man, but to be in quietness, (1Ti 2:11-12 YLT+RB) the 'to teach' and the 'to rule' are both Present Infinitives.

In English we only have a simple infinitive. Paul's refusal allow is said to be referencing
'those who continually preach' and 'those who continually authorit-ize man'. The point I am making is that I think Paul's reference is to roles rather than events.

I think my teaching (notice I switched your word) at the Mission is a routine; next time I come I'll bring my bagpipes.

In that long posting I also asked the question what is a teacher in a New Testament sense. To me the central feature is authority, and its perception, rather than counting the times he teaches.


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2004/10/7 8:18Profile





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