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rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4792


 Re:

Sis wrote:

Quote:
We all have these different gifts we willing to share? Being a DR or Nurse, or painter. It carzy to think we work as a family. I knew a DR in a Church who help missionary for free.



I live in an area of the country where the Amish and Mennonite church family do take care of one another in this way. Yet they are still at the mercy of the "non profit" hospital system we have here in central Pennsylvania.

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2007/6/20 1:11Profile
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Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 hail to the chief

Greetings in Jesus' Name by whose Blood we are Reconciled to the Father. AMEN.

bro M.C.

Quote:
I'm voting for Ironman. I like his policies.



there is another tune playing in my head now! :-P You know bro, i was seeking God a bit more on that very thing and He was Gracious enough to minister a bit more to me about it. i was able to share that among us because it is something which God has made plain to me is necessary, Christ as Lord of all, indeed i believe it is plain to us all. i confess i didn't say it as one who has apprehended the gravity of it as yet but as one floundering to lay hold of this thing and have it working in my life as it should that He may be Glorified. AMEN. it is my hope that this can be used of God to build up the Body in some way that He may receive the Glory and Honour due Him.

i'm finding there is an ecstacy (for the inner man) which comes from yielding something wholly to Him and there is a corresponding agony which comes when it is plain some things are yet to be yielded to His Lordship. We need both, the ecstacy to let us know we are on track and the agony to keep us pressing on lest the ecstacy becomes something plain and we fail to esteem it and just sit on our hands.

i am by His Grace yet pressing on to lay hold of this thing, that Christ be Lord of all in my life.

Quote:
The pitfall I tend to see with well intentioned discussion about 'society' and 'systems' is that pretty soon everything degenerates into a volley of statistics and op ed pieces. Meanwhile, as an individual faced with the reality of actually solving this problem for my family I am not helped at all.



this is true, there is a place for facts but it seems that the fact the discussions go off into op-eds and such reflects on how we have not yielded all to Christ. Even in things such as this, issues regarding work, friends or other matters which are called secular, we ought to seek God in those things all the more. For us as Christians, there ought to be no aspect of our lives which is secular but rather in all things, we are to govern ourselves as God would have us. When Christ said to render to caesar what is his and to God what is God, He in effect was telling us (as God) how we ought to govern ourselves as it pertains to the governments He has set up. Some have taken that to mean a separation but it isn't, it's God governing our conduct. i suppose we grow up being taught to be independant and that spills over into our lives as far as God is concerned and we exercise as independance of Him which is dangerous in many day to day things. perhaps some things to think about? As Americans we do pride ourselves in being independant and that affects our individual lives which then determines the general spirit of our nation and its character. let us press into God more that He may have His Theorcracy in our lives. AMEN.

Quote:
Yet conversely when Americans start complaining about what they have I equally feel unsettled. What is it going to take to make mankind thankful? While so many people starve, living only inches from mosquito and desease infested rivers of open sewage and refuge, many in this country sit around (on rather large seats I might wager) pointing out yet another problem with their 'system.'



in this regard we are like Israel, contended (well to some degree) on large couches and panelled homes without much sense of gratitude for what God has given us nor thanksgiving. We complain when we don't have what we perceive to be the best and not often stop to consider that God is at work...i think if you would ask some around the world they would say we are like spoiled brats.

Quote:
Personally I think I am in that wasteland of American healthcare; the small self employed busines owner. I do not qualify for state assistance, and so my wife and I must do what we can to cover our expenses. She works just to cover this responsibility.



i work also to allow for healthcare benefits to the tune of almost $1000 a month (ouch!) but like you i bless God for that provision, a goodly portion of it is covered by my state which employs me. this is better than the many who come to the E.R. who are indigents and have no health insurance. It is good to be greatful! are we not to enter His gates with thanksgiving and praise after all!? at this point i feel as though i am by His Grace stepping into a sense of being bulletproof in Christ. as Christians, we [i][b]can't [/b][/i] lose. All things work together for our good...costly healthcare or not come hell, high water or both. i hope we can take hold of Romans 8:28 by His Grace. AMEN.

Quote:
Shame on us I say. I know of modern immigrants who come to America and live meagerly, with several families sharing housing, while they builld their carreers and fortunes. Meanwhile we native citizens feel entitled to some sort of ever rising standard of living. We drive twenty to thirty thousand dollar cars and complain about $3.00 gas. We live in two story houses and complain about the cost of living. We waltz into the grocery store and complain about the cost of oranges and milk. We just can't imagine that someone doesn't owe us a better deal then the one we have.



indeed there is something to be said about being modest...there was a guy i met, a physician who is a BMW fan like myself and has a collection of perhaps 3-4 (not sure) BMW coupes. well the last one he bought was a 645ci which runs about $80k base. i asked him if he liked the M6 which is about $95k or so and he said he looked at it but didn't buy it because it got 12mpg at 100mph. in my head i was thinking "who buys a $100k car and even gives a rip about gas prices? i know i wouldn't" it costs me about $50 to fill my car up now but i don't get mad, God made provision for me to put gas in there every time i needed to. for the life of me i could never understand why people complain about gas when we fork out so much for our whips... :-? i think the fact that we feel we deserve an increased standard of living will make the coming judgment that much more harsh :-(

Quote:
Forgive my small rant here. I'm not directing this at anyone in particular of course. I've certainly been guilty of the things I mentioned above. I truly thank God He is merciful and patient with his children.



as have i bro, it is truly His Mercy that He allows us to see this and give us Grace to correct it. it is good that we not separate ourselves from our brethren but that we identify with one another to as to pray for one another, exhort and admonish one another in Love so we come to the fullness of what we ought to be as Christians. As surely as Daniel and Ezekiel suffered in exile with their people in judgment and identified with the sin of the nation, so must we. We must confess our sins as Daniel did for Israel even though he was a righteous man and was not guilty of committing those things but he was guilty because these were his brethren and they were suffering together.

Grace and Peace be yours in Jesus' Name. AMEN.


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Farai Bamu

 2007/6/20 15:20Profile
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Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 2732


 Re:

Quote:
Brother, this comment that I write is not meant as a means to cast any judgement on you or your family decisions.



Actually I opted into this thread (and other threads) willing to learn and to expose myself to some measure of judgement. I'm carefully aware of my ongoing capacity for wrong choices. As I mentioned initially I am interested in learning about new ideas are out there regarding individual strategies for health care. I have done what I believe is right, recognizing that my solution leaves other aspects of life still unanswered.

Sometimes we make choices that other people can easily see are mistakes. Learning involves regret. Regret is one of the pitfalls of being a Christian. Man is born with a desire to be self sufficient, but the child of God is quicker to admit inadequacy. So we must be willing to endure periodic regrets as the mind is renewed and the heart regenerated. Maturity embraces this sorrow because it embraces wisdom.

So that is my policy towards judgement. Transparency let's the light in and there is no need to fear correction or to apologize for it. In fact, I need all the wisdom I can get.

Quote:
My question is, Who is responsible for creating this "American dream" which costs so much?



Are Americans the only people who have to work hard?

I hope we aren't missing each other's point on this one. I certainly understand that America is only another cog in the world system and has no special claim on virtue or standard of living. This country is like any other man made thing...it could fade and wither like grass.

Well, as always I appreciate your thoughts and questions Jeff. They are always challenging and most of all, Christ centered.

Blessings,

MC


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Mike Compton

 2007/6/20 16:53Profile
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Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 Re:

bro Jeff
Greetings in Jesus' Name by whose BLood we are Justified before God. AMEN.

Quote:
Ironman's observation on our 'style of life" is revealing something more basic than just health care benefits or lack there of. I listen to many families speak of the hectic pace of life that we Americans have come to accept. I constantly hear people complain that they have no time. Everyone is working. Everyone is striving to acquire the "American dream."



i had been thinking a bit about what had been made plain to us about our hectic lifestyles and our Lord showed me a couple of things. We have made the American dream into an idol and as such we focus a lot of energy on realizing that. i am not saying we should all quit our jobs but merely we ought to reflect on what we do with what we make. i suppose many of us are in debt because of things we wanted and got which weren't in hindsight altogether crucial. it seems we have become quite enamored with the American dream which itself is a product of the enemy designed to distract us from God. it's a very glitsy thing, more appealing than a simpler life which God would have us lead. The genius of this system is that it squeezes God out of everything, school, work, political office and forces a reliance on the reasonings of man leaving us more than fair game for the enemy to knock us off. It is the nature of the world system, brutal, efficient, without God to make us slaves to satan.

i say this as one who has yet many idols to put to death. i bless God for His opening of our eyes to this wickedness which is so subtle (indeed this is the worst kind of wickedness) and enticing and is more the enemy's speed because it is benign enough.

we have become accustomed to working so hard because the American dream is more appealing to us than God is; we have lost our awe of Him and we desperately need to regain that so we can see rightly.

God help us!AMEN.


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Farai Bamu

 2007/6/20 23:34Profile
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Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 2732


 Re:

Quote:
The genius of this system is that it squeezes God out of everything, school, work, political office and forces a reliance on the reasonings of man leaving us more than fair game for the enemy to knock us off. It is the nature of the world system, brutal, efficient, without God to make us slaves to satan.



It is a persistant myth in the church today that people can't have a sense of meaning and purpose in life without the Lord. On the contrary, this world offers a wide assortment of meanings and reasons for living. This certainly is part of the problem with the modern gospel: "Jesus has come to fill your emptiness and give you a sense of fulfillment." The sad truth is most people can find plenty of purpose chasing the illusions that Ironman and Rookie describe.

In our commercial age, we need to accept that many people really are not searching for some great meaning...they are able to aquire all the security and fulfillment they think they need quite nicely. Remarkably William Wilberforce discussed this modern condition emerging in his day some 200 years ago...he linked it to the fact that European commerce and trade was creating an unprecedented affluence for the common man. This affluence, he lamented, had the detrimental effect on the Church of producing cultural Christians instead of true Christians.

It is the grace of God in our modern age that some are fortunate enough to become dissilusioned. I pray with everyone here that we remain mercifully stripped of our illusions of this world and it's consuming promises.

Blessings,

MC


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Mike Compton

 2007/6/21 0:55Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4792


 Re:

Ironman wrote eloquently:



Quote:
The genius of this system is that it squeezes God out of everything, school, work, political office and forces a reliance on the reasonings of man leaving us more than fair game for the enemy to knock us off. It is the nature of the world system, brutal, efficient, without God to make us slaves to satan.



This reminds me of this Scripture...

Mark 4

18 Now these are the ones sown among thorns; they are the ones who hear the word, 19 and the cares of this world, the deceitfulness of riches, and the desires for other things entering in choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful.

The American dream requires that one competes for limited resources. We often hear how "efficient" the American economic system is compared to the rest of the world.

I live in a town that was founded by Milton Hershey. He built the factories, the homes, the schools, the theme park for those who worked for him. He created an endowment for orphans. Now the CEO is closing down the factories in Hershey, Canada, and California and building new factories in Mexico. It is a no-brainer for these men. There is no genius in what they do. They legitimize their decisions based on something that has no value, paper money. People strive for paper money. And others are destroyed for this paper money.

Vanity and futility.

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2007/6/21 2:40Profile
rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4792


 Re:

Brother Mike wrote:

Quote:
Remarkably William Wilberforce discussed this modern condition emerging in his day some 200 years ago...he linked it to the fact that European commerce and trade was creating an unprecedented affluence for the common man.



This was the beginning of the breakup of the family. There is a devote christian family man that I know that struggles with the idea of highier education for his children. He says the children go away to school. They graduate and go wherever the job market calls. I have experienced this in my own life.

Where we live now, we attend a Brethren church where families have stayed together for generations. This seems so foreign to me. Three and four generations all attending church together. Life seems so different than what I have seen in California.

Yet everyone here looks at California and sees gold.

God Bless
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2007/6/21 2:52Profile
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Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 Re:

Brethren i greet you all in the Name of Jesus' Christ by whose Blood we are Jsutified. AMEN.

bro Mike C.

Quote:
It is a persistant myth in the church today that people can't have a sense of meaning and purpose in life without the Lord. On the contrary, this world offers a wide assortment of meanings and reasons for living. This certainly is part of the problem with the modern gospel: "Jesus has come to fill your emptiness and give you a sense of fulfillment." The sad truth is most people can find plenty of purpose chasing the illusions that Ironman and Rookie describe.



i bless God for His working here to reveal the beauty and utility of fellowship. Indeed this notion that one's life can't be filled without Christ isn't true, the world strives very well and has a goodly degree of success in this endevour. Of course the enemy works hard to see this done hence all the gaudy, tantalizing and titilating things out there from fleshly lusts to the occult. However Satan's masterpiece is the thing which he has fashioned and spent ages developing which is to be the false parallel to what the Church is. This is the most sinister of things designed to pull people from God because it purports to be Christianity. we could call it churchianity, nominal christianity or whatever. We can tell it because the heart of it is man and the idea that God is man's servant. it is devoid of the Cross, SAcrifice, Holiness and Righteousness. It is one degree off the Truth but the end of it is perdition.

The idea of making money or satisfying other lusts is pretty rampant and appeals to the flesh such that most people get caught up in this and not necessarily the false faith but there is an even more wicked thing afoot which is like the offspring of these two things which is the prosperity gospel.

Quote:
It is the grace of God in our modern age that some are fortunate enough to become dissilusioned. I pray with everyone here that we remain mercifully stripped of our illusions of this world and it's consuming promises.



indeed it is God's Grace that some are disillousioned. in this Grace some have been allowed to discern or feel that there [i][b]has[/b][/i] to be something more to the faith than the run of the mill grind...i ran into a young man a couple of weeks ago who is about 23 or so who is disillousioned and said to me that there must be something more. i knew and was led to tell him God has His hand on Him and i was uplifted.

our children are disillousioned like Hitler and his generation by our shallow faith. this is why they are acting up, they want a demonstration of the Faith which has Power, we can't deliver because we're out of the loop and so they turn to the enemy's alternatives from fornication and other things which appeal to the flesh to dark arts and such. some time ago i saw a young couple in barnes and noble who were looking at new age books and so i asked them what the deal was. the young man who was about 17 or so said to me that he called his parents the congregation's head hypocrites and they kicked him out of the house. his young girlfriend believed in other ways to heaven (which really is not the issue of Salvation but is a humanistic view of Salvation) God gave me Grace to refute that by stating Christ was the Way Truth and Life. She could not respond to that and i pray God pierced her heart that day. Either way i felt a sense that we have profoundly failed our children and sown the seeds of our own sufferings, worst of all though is that those who perish eternally because we failed to show God as God, their blood will be required at our hands...Oh dear saints i pray we raise our children as God would have us do! Let us not have given birth to a generation like that of Hitler which turned the world upside down seeking the fellowship in darkness (and finding) which was supposed to be theirs in the Light.

Grace and Peace be ours in Jesus' Name. AMEN.


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Farai Bamu

 2007/6/22 17:35Profile
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Joined: 2004/6/15
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 Re:

bro Jeff
Greetings in Jesus' Name by whose Blood we are Justified. AMEN.

Forgive the late response bro, i managed to write back to bro Mike C. but had to dash for a few hours.

Quote:
18 Now these are the ones sown among thorns; they are the ones who hear the word, 19 and the cares of this world, the deceitfulness of riches, and the desires for other things entering in choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful.



i bless God for so disillousioning me and quickening me to these things, were it not for Him, i would be in the dark and cold.

you know bro Jeff, that scripture is very pertinent to this issue, it is dead on. for those who are a bit weird like myself, perhaps it is worth noting that out of 4 types of people, only in one type does the word take root and abide...meaning only 1/4 will obtain Salvation. The enemy is hard at work to stop the gospel's advancement, he comes to snatch it away, choke it and also to harden the heart so it can't take root. He is ruthless and he is a murderer.

Quote:
The American dream requires that one competes for limited resources. We often hear how "efficient" the American economic system is compared to the rest of the world.



yes the American dream seems to me the perfect thing to entice and ensnare men by appealing to our flesh. the possibilities are boundless, big houses cars, all sorts of gratifications...only in America can one live a sordid, twisted life and get a reality show and a book deal and come from obscurity to super-stardom! indeed as the Psalm says, the wicked rejoice when the vile things are celebrated.

Quote:
I live in a town that was founded by Milton Hershey. He built the factories, the homes, the schools, the theme park for those who worked for him. He created an endowment for orphans. Now the CEO is closing down the factories in Hershey, Canada, and California and building new factories in Mexico. It is a no-brainer for these men. There is no genius in what they do. They legitimize their decisions based on something that has no value, paper money. People strive for paper money. And others are destroyed for this paper money.



you know, this is the trend, to outsource. This is the death of the middle class which drives the economy and this would eventually bring economic collapse or revolution. the very brutal efficiency of this devilish machine says it is designed to destroy lives, homes, everything. It forces one to become cold, perhaps this has something to do with what was said by Christ about men's hearts waxing cold...

Quote:
Vanity and futility.



ahh and vanity (pride) is the root of all sin. our Lord quickened me to this, pride was the first thing Lucifer was guilty of and it lead to all this madness. i'm not sure who has watched the Devil's Advocate, but at the end, Al Pacino (playing Satan) says that vanity is his most favourite vice...after all it is the source of all sin. So much for those kids who think scarface was the best Pacino movie...i think the enemy so brazenly putting that out there in a movie and few pick up on it is indicative of the depth of our slumber...we're about to be slapped awake...

Grace and Peace be ours in Jesus' Name. AMEN.


_________________
Farai Bamu

 2007/6/22 22:51Profile
rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4792


 Re:

Brother wrote:

Quote:
So much for those kids who think scarface was the best Pacino movie...i think the enemy so brazenly putting that out there in a movie and few pick up on it is indicative of the depth of our slumber...we're about to be slapped awake...



Even to this day it amazes me that one can walk into a mall and find whole store fronts filled with "Scarface" momentos.

God Bless
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2007/6/23 8:18Profile





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