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rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4792


 Re:

Another observation...

In my experience, my family rarily is seen by an actual doctor.

Is this your experience?

In Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2007/6/19 17:29Profile
Compton
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 2732


 Re:

Jeff,

Certainly there is a measure of pride here. There is also a measure of gratitude. Sometimes it's hard to tell the difference in each individual.

I certainly can imagine that there are health related benifits in other nations that are superior to the US. We should consider more then just hospital and drug costs, but also other contributing health factors.

For instance Americans in general eat irresponsibly. Studies have shown that our portions are on average 150%-200% larger when compared to the portions of the 1980's. Simply put, we want our hamburgers, patries, coffees, ect bigger and bigger. Our poor hearts.

Yet, looking to Cuba for solutions is an assualt on reason.;-) Cuba is a sole propriety business with Fidel as the chief gravy taker...for the life of me I can't understand why liberals tend to admire communist systems. They certainly wouldn't admire an American President who ran his country in such a fashion. (On second thought...maybe they would...gulp. :-o )

For the record I personally am sympathetic to a measure of public health care provision. There simply are times when the cash flow just ain't there for families. This doesn't mean that I am for the government assuming responsibility, and authority for my family like they have done with public education. I think there are more creative solutions that are readily available. In short I believe government regulated private enterprise can provide a more effiecient solution then simply expanding welfare.

But as Jordan hinted below...let's be honest here. A critic of our current health care system would have more credibility in my eyes if he actually appeared to be responsible for his own health. Only in America can you eat as indulgently as Michael Moore has and complain about the health care system. I would rather listen to Richard Simmons. Moore's 'compassion' is an insult to people who actually try to take care of themselves despite living in nations where health care actually is poor. Seriously, if you are stuffing your arteries full of transfat and sugars, please don't complain about the rising cost of bypass surgery and insulin.

Yet, I know bad things happen to responsibly healthy people very day. Having said all that, I am sincerely interested if people outside the USA have some helpful insight from their own nations how we could be doing better. I am particularly interested in what I as a father taking care of a wife and children can do. Maybe others both here or abroad have discovered some tips and some strategies that are quite simple.

MC


_________________
Mike Compton

 2007/6/19 17:51Profile
pastorfrin
Member



Joined: 2006/1/19
Posts: 1406


 Re:

Instead of prclaiming all our pride and such,
maybe we should swallow some and look at the facts.
From Wikipedia which probably is not accepted by Fox News. Here are the facts.


List of countries by infant mortality rate
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The infant mortality rate (IMR) is the reported number of infants dying under a year of age, per one thousand live births.

Rank Country or region Infant mortality rate
(deaths/1,000 live births)
  1 Angola 184.44
  2 Sierra Leone 158.27
  3 Afghanistan 157.43
  4 Liberia 149.73
  5 Niger 116.83
  6 Somalia 113.08
  7 Mozambique 109.93
  8 Mali 105.65
  9 Guinea-Bissau 103.50
 10 Chad 102.07
 11 Djibouti 100.77
 12 Zambia 100.71
 13 Bhutan  96.37
 14 Nigeria  95.52
 15 Malawi  92.10
 16 Ethiopia  91.92
 17 Sudan  91.78
 18 Burkina Faso  89.79
 19 Guinea  88.58
 20 Cote d'Ivoire  87.41
 21 Equatorial Guinea  87.15
 22 Rwanda  85.27
 23 Central African Republic  83.97
 24 Congo, Republic of the  83.26
 25 Laos  81.44
 26 Lesotho  79.85
 27 Benin  77.85
 28 Tanzania  71.69
 29 Comoros  70.66
 30 Swaziland  70.66
 31 Gambia, The  70.14
 32 Uzbekistan  68.89
 33 Pakistan  68.84
 34 Mauritania  68.07
 35 Uganda  67.22
 36 Cameroon  65.84
 37 Congo, Democratic Republic of the  65.52
 38 Haiti  63.83
 39 Nepal  63.66
 40 Burundi  61.93
 41 Senegal  60.15
 42 Mayotte  59.51
 43 South Africa  59.44
 44 Bangladesh  59.12
 45 Togo  59.12
 46 Cambodia  58.45
 47 Azerbaijan  58.31
 48 Yemen  57.88
 49 Kenya  57.44
 50 Madagascar  57.02
 51 Gabon  53.65
 52 Ghana  53.56
 53 Turkmenistan  53.49
 54 Maldives  53.25
 55 Vanuatu  52.45
 56 Zimbabwe  51.12
 57 Burma  50.68
 58 Bolivia  50.43
 59 Papua New Guinea  48.46
 60 Namibia  47.23
 61 Iraq  47.04
 62 Kiribati  46.02
 63 Cape Verde  45.27
 64 Eritrea  45.24
 65 East Timor  44.46
 66 Botswana  43.97
 67 Tajikistan  43.64
 68 World  43.52
 69 Mongolia  42.65
 70 Sao Tome and Principe  40.54
 71 Morocco  38.85
 72 Turkey  38.33
 73 Iran  38.12
 74 India  34.61
 75 Kyrgyzstan  33.38
 76 Indonesia  32.14
 77 Guyana  31.35
 78 Peru  29.96
 79 Guatemala  29.77
 80 Egypt  29.50
 81 Algeria  28.78
 82 Micronesia, Federated States of  28.15
 83 Dominican Republic  27.94
 84 Syria  27.70
 85 Brazil  27.62
 86 Kazakhstan  27.41
 87 Marshall Islands  27.30
 88 Nicaragua  27.14
 89 Paraguay  26.45
 90 Samoa  25.89
 91 Honduras  25.21
 92 Romania  24.60
 93 Belize  24.38
 94 Vietnam  24.37
 95 Trinidad and Tobago  24.33
 96 Bahamas, The  24.17
 97 Lebanon  23.39
 98 Tunisia  22.94
 99 El Salvador  22.88
100 Libya  22.82
101 Korea, North  22.56
102 Venezuela  22.52
103 China  22.12
104 Philippines  22.12
105 Ecuador  22.10
106 Gaza Strip  21.88
107 Armenia  21.69
108 Colombia  20.13
109 Suriname  20.11
110 Albania  20.02
111 Solomon Islands  19.97
112 Mexico  19.63
113 Anguilla  19.61
114 Sri Lanka  19.45
115 Bulgaria  19.16
116 Tuvalu  18.90
117 Thailand  18.85
118 West Bank  18.67
119 Oman  18.28
120 Antigua and Barbuda  18.26
121 Saint Helena  17.67
122 Qatar  17.46
123 Georgia  17.36
124 Malaysia  16.62
125 Bahrain  16.18
126 Jordan  16.16
127 British Virgin Islands  16.13
128 Panama  15.96
129 Jamaica  15.73
130 Greenland  14.98
131 Aruba  14.75
132 Seychelles  14.75
133 Turks and Caicos Islands  14.70
134 Dominica  14.61
135 Argentina  14.29
136 Mauritius  14.14
137 Palau  14.07
138 Saint Vincent and the Grenadines  14.01
139 Grenada  13.92
140 Moldova  13.88
141 Saint Kitts and Nevis  13.74
142 United Arab Emirates  13.52
143 Brunei  13.12
144 Saint Lucia  12.81
145 Saudi Arabia  12.41
146 Uruguay  12.02
147 Fiji  11.99
148 Tonga  11.99
149 Barbados  11.55
150 Russia  11.06
151 Netherlands Antilles   9.63
152 Nauru   9.60
153 Bosnia and Herzegovina   9.58
154 Macedonia   9.53
155 Ukraine   9.50
156 Kuwait   9.47
157 Costa Rica   9.45
158 Latvia   9.16
159 American Samoa   8.88
160 Chile   8.36
161 Hungary   8.21
162 Bermuda   8.08
163 French Polynesia   7.84
164 Puerto Rico   7.81
165 Cayman Islands   7.80
166 Virgin Islands   7.69
167 Estonia   7.59
168 New Caledonia   7.42
169 Saint Pierre and Miquelon   7.21
170 Slovakia   7.12
171 Poland   7.07
172 Montserrat   7.03
173 Cyprus   6.89
174 Northern Mariana Islands   6.85
175 Israel   6.75
176 Guam   6.68
177 Lithuania   6.68
178 Belarus   6.63
179 Croatia   6.60
180 United States   6.37
181 Korea, South   6.05
182 Cuba   6.04
183 Faroe Islands   6.01
184 Isle of Man   5.72
185 Italy   5.72
186 New Zealand   5.67
187 Taiwan   5.54
188 San Marino   5.53
189 Greece   5.34
190 Monaco   5.27
191 Ireland   5.22
192 Jersey   5.08
193 United Kingdom   5.01
194 Gibraltar   4.98
195 Portugal   4.92
196 Netherlands   4.88
197 European Union   4.80
198 Luxembourg   4.68
199 Canada   4.63
200 Guernsey   4.59
201 Liechtenstein   4.58
202 Australia   4.57
203 Belgium   4.56
204 Austria   4.54
205 Denmark   4.45
206 Slovenia   4.35
207 Macau   4.33
208 Spain   4.31
209 Switzerland   4.28
210 Germany   4.08
211 Andorra   4.03
212 Czech Republic   3.86
213 Malta   3.82
214 Norway   3.64
215 Finland   3.52
216 France   3.41
217 Iceland   3.27
218 Hong Kong   2.94
219 Japan   2.80
220 Sweden   2.76
221 Singapore   2.30
America comes in at 41 not 37 and Cuba does have
a slightly lower rate. Now was'nt that easy. ;-)

In His Love
pastorfrin

 2007/6/19 18:23Profile
awakenwithin
Member



Joined: 2007/1/31
Posts: 985
AZ

 Re:

I sorry I have disagree with 85% of the health care out there. Now hear I am every thanful for what we have. But the truth is that is alot of things that are wrong. But on that same note I think there are very good things. I think there are so very good people out there. But again our health and health care system is not the ful promble I think we need to look deeper. Lets go back in time when there was little farms, then big company came in. What happen to the food?
then what happened to our health. We bigger and deeper prombles in America that is killing us, and 95% don't even know it. We talk about obey God, is not our health part of it?

But on the part of health care. It very hard for me because I am sick, they deny me. What Iam left with, but the state help. But again I am very thankful. I live in poor area, people struggling, having family children. Not knowing what to do. I understand, you how many people are without medical?

in his love
charlene


_________________
charlene

 2007/6/19 18:34Profile
IRONMAN
Member



Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 Only in America...

bro M.C.
Greetings in Jesus' Name by whose Blood we are Justified before God. AMEN.

Quote:
But as Jordan hinted below...let's be honest here. A critic of our current health care system would have more credibility in my eyes if he actually appeared to be responsible for his own health. Only in America can you eat as indulgently as Michael Moore has and complain about the health care system. I would rather listen to Richard Simmons. Moore's 'compassion' is an insult to people who actually try to take care of themselves despite living in nations where health care actually is poor. Seriously, if you are stuffing your arteries full of transfat and sugars, don't complain about the rising cost of bypass surgery and insulin.



indeed this is ironic, i had to laugh to myself at this situation...indeed only in America can one so do.that song comes to mind again... perhaps the fact that such indulgences can go on is an indictment against our lifestyles. There is a Psalm in which one of the verses says something to the effect of the wicked rejoice when vile things are celebrated... :-?

Quote:
For the record I personally am sympathetic to a measure of public health care provision. There simply are times when the cash flow just ain't there for families. This doesn't mean that I am for the government assuming responsibility, and authority for my family like they have done with public education. I think there are more creative solutions that are readily available. In short I believe government regulated private enterprise can provide a more effiecient solution then simply expanding welfare.



you know, there is something which came to mind when i read this. Sure there is a lot of bashing of socialized medicine and so on but the countries which have this sort of set up are a lot smaller than the U.S. in terms of population and square area. Perhaps that system works over there partly because of this and a similar system would be far too unweildy here because we are a population of close to 400 million spread out over a pretty sizeable area. something to consider?

i guess communism works when populations are rather small...of course there is always the looming spectre of atheism and dictatorship...with democracy it is the same, unwieldy with large numbers of people. The best form of government is The Theocracy of Christ which we must have in our own lives as Christians.

Quote:
Yet, I know bad things happen to responsibly healthy people very day. Having said all that, I am sincerely interested in people outside the USA have some helpful insight from their own nations how we could be doing better. I am particularly interested in what I as a father taking care of a wife and children can do. Maybe others both here or abroad have discovered some tips and some strategies that are quite simple.



having lived in Zimbabwe many years and lived here for 10, i see a marked difference in that people back home tend to relax more, take more time off work but this place is a rat race. Time flies by and years go by and you haven't seen or heard from people you grew up with even if you live in the same city and the reason is always the same, "been working hard" i guess i would say is to acknowledge our Lord in all your ways and He will direct your path. that way we wouldn't just be doing better, we would be at our Best by His Grace.

Grace and Peace be yours in Jesus' Name. AMEN.


_________________
Farai Bamu

 2007/6/19 18:37Profile
Compton
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 2732


 Re: Only in America...

Quote:
The best form of government is The Theocracy of Christ which we must have in our own lives as Christians.



I'm voting for Ironman. I like his policies.

You know whenever I start to talk about 'society' and 'systems' it is easy for me to become philosophic and a bit political. The fact of the matter is I don't know who has the lowest infant mortatily rate or the highest cancer rate. It's not something I'm really able to thump my chest over.

The pitfall I tend to see with well intentioned discussion about 'society' and 'systems' is that pretty soon everything degenerates into a volley of statistics and op ed pieces. Meanwhile, as an individual faced with the reality of actually solving this problem for my family I am not helped at all.

For me the issue here is our individual character...and ultimately our national character. When American's start bragging about thier standard of living I am left with a nervous forboding feeling inside...a not too small fearful anticipation of God's dissaproval of our fatness. We are told in no uncertain terms that pride goes before a fall.

Yet conversely when Americans start complaining about what they have I equally feel unsettled. What is it going to take to make mankind thankful? While so many people starve, living only inches from mosquito and desease infested rivers of open sewage and refuge, many in this country sit around (on rather large seats I might wager) pointing out yet another problem with their 'system.'

Personally I think I am in that wasteland of American healthcare; the small self employed busines owner. I do not qualify for state assistance, and so my wife and I must do what we can to cover our expenses. She works just to cover this responsibility.

Healthcare takes a sizable portion of our variable income, but praise God for his provision! We realize that next year we may face different circumstances but we are thankful for this day's provision. We do not meditate on how the system is broken or envy the Cubans. Accusing someone in government of failing us, or that 'Big Pharma' is sticking it us, is not going to help our family. Blaming other people is hardly the character of a Godly man or woman.

Shame on us I say. I know of modern immigrants who come to America and live meagerly, with several families sharing housing, while they builld their carreers and fortunes. Meanwhile we native citizens feel entitled to some sort of ever rising standard of living. We drive twenty to thirty thousand dollar cars and complain about $3.00 gas. We live in two story houses and complain about the cost of living. We waltz into the grocery store and complain about the cost of oranges and milk. We just can't imagine that someone doesn't owe us a better deal then the one we have.

Forgive my small rant here. I'm not directing this at anyone in particular of course. I've certainly been guilty of the things I mentioned above. I truly thank God He is merciful and patient with his children.

MC


_________________
Mike Compton

 2007/6/19 21:46Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4792


 Re:

Brother Mike wrote:

Quote:
Personally I think I am in that wasteland of American healthcare; the small self employed busines owner. I do not qualify for state assistance, and so my wife and I must do what we can to cover our expenses. She works just to cover this responsibility.



Brother, this comment that I write is not meant as a means to cast any judgement on you or your family decisions.
Many families have had to make the same choices. Back in California, we have some good friends who have to have the mother work as a teacher in the public schools for the same reason. The husband is self employed.

Everyone in their family hates the fact that she has to work so that the family can take advantage of the health benefits. The children complain that mom in never home. She often goes to school on Sunday after church to prepare her class for the next weeks events.

Ironman's observation on our 'style of life" is revealing something more basic than just health care benefits or lack there of. I listen to many families speak of the hectic pace of life that we Americans have come to accept. I constantly hear people complain that they have no time. Everyone is working. Everyone is striving to acquire the "American dream."

My question is, Who is responsible for creating this "American dream" which costs so much?

And why do we Americans work so hard to pursue this "dream?"

In Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2007/6/20 0:47Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4792


 Re:

This stat was taken from the Census Burea info...

While the median household income has increased 44% since 1990 it has decreased very slightly when considering inflation. In 1990, the median household income was determined to be $30,056; $44,603 in 2003 dollars. While personal income has remained relatively stagnant over the past few decades, household income has risen due to the rising percentage of households with two or more income earners. Between 1999 and 2004 household income stagnated showing a slight increase since 2004.[10][11]


What this is saying is that income has gone down since 1990. But this fact is covered over by the event that more families have decided that both parents need to work.

In terms of health care, I wonder how many of us who earn less than the median income would say that they have good health care?

In Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2007/6/20 1:00Profile
awakenwithin
Member



Joined: 2007/1/31
Posts: 985
AZ

 Re:

Quote:
My question is, Who is responsible for creating this "American dream" which costs so much?



is America with this an dream ? I think in humans we are working so hard for the Good life
or what we think that is. People work so hard because in some cases they are thinking about themselves. We use our money in the most foolish ways. We are responsible for this. We buy, we sell. We go and but new cars, when we don't have the money. We are living over what we have.

Just a thought I was looking at ads today. it was a Christian workers. They all kinds of jobs. I know this a little out there. But if we are a body are we not to be taking care of each other, what has the bosy became but about self?
We all have these different gifts we willing to share? Being a DR or Nurse, or painter. It carzy to think we work as a family. I knew a DR in a Church who help missionary for free. Now I did hear about this Health care for Chirstain. As long you are not sick before you can get it, I don't remeber the name.


In his love
charlene


_________________
charlene

 2007/6/20 1:05Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4792


 Re:

To the brothers and sisters who live in these countries...

181 Korea, South ??6.05
182 Cuba ??6.04
183 Faroe Islands ??6.01
184 Isle of Man ??5.72
185 Italy ??5.72
186 New Zealand ??5.67
187 Taiwan ??5.54
188 San Marino ??5.53
189 Greece ??5.34
190 Monaco ??5.27
191 Ireland ??5.22
192 Jersey ??5.08
193 United Kingdom ??5.01
194 Gibraltar ??4.98
195 Portugal ??4.92
196 Netherlands ??4.88
197 European Union ??4.80
198 Luxembourg ??4.68
199 Canada ??4.63
200 Guernsey ??4.59
201 Liechtenstein ??4.58
202 Australia ??4.57
203 Belgium ??4.56
204 Austria ??4.54
205 Denmark ??4.45
206 Slovenia ??4.35
207 Macau ??4.33
208 Spain ??4.31
209 Switzerland ??4.28
210 Germany ??4.08
211 Andorra ??4.03
212 Czech Republic ??3.86
213 Malta ??3.82
214 Norway ??3.64
215 Finland ??3.52
216 France ??3.41
217 Iceland ??3.27
218 Hong Kong ??2.94
219 Japan ??2.80
220 Sweden ??2.76
221 Singapore ??2.30


Are you able to have access to health care?

In Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2007/6/20 1:05Profile





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