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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : is tithing for today??

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LoveHim
Member



Joined: 2007/6/14
Posts: 562
Indiana, US

 is tithing for today??

that is a question that i have not asked too many people because my church is pro-tithe and people here treat you different and pretty much wish to not talk to me (about doctrinal stuff) if i disagree with them on this issue..

i was raised tithing all of my life from a little kid and it was not until about 2 years ago that i started studying about tithing and i believe that it is not for today and not biblically binding on christians..

let me say that i do believe in supporting missionaries, but i do not believe that there is a law of tithes that is binding on us..

if someone would like to defend tithing as for today, please feel free to do so and i would appreciate to get a lot of peoples thoughts,
convictions, and most important God's Word on this matter..

thank you all very much and please remember that we are all brothers and sisters in christ..

 2007/6/16 22:57Profile
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: is tithing for today??

Hi Phil,

Not to short circuit you here, but this has been discussed at length in a number of posts. Do try a search of the site on the topic. I do not see it as 'binding' either ... actually there is a lot of binding going on but ... I digress.


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Mike Balog

 2007/6/16 23:22Profile
LoveHim
Member



Joined: 2007/6/14
Posts: 562
Indiana, US

 Re:

sorry, please forgive me, i have never used that search thing before..

i apologize..

thanks crsschk.

 2007/6/16 23:31Profile
rowdy2
Member



Joined: 2007/1/21
Posts: 528
Southern USA

 Re: is tithing for today??


Money has the subscription and image of man so give what is owing the worldly governments but give too what ever man or organizations you choose but with out compulsion, it is yours and your spouse as being one in the flesh and the only person that has a Devine right to what is worldly yours. We have been urged by the words of the Apostles to give to the poor in the spirit of love remember that we each shall be judged by our works based upon love and charity.

Give praise and glory to He who speaks through you. You are made in His image and He loves you and a spirit has not flesh and bones as a earthly body but a spiritual body, one in Christ and if you have been separated from your mother’s womb and born again and become one spirit with Christ Jesus and married to all the other members you are the image of God and the abode of The Holy Spirit and the Son. Worship the Father in spirit and in truth.

If you have pledged to tithe I urge you to keep your pledge, but as children of God’s Kingdom we are no longer strangers but are free from the tax on strangers and we being born free and our appeals are in the name of Jesus as being begotten and justified in Him.
Eddie

Matthew 17:
24. And when they were come to Capernaum, they that received tribute money came to Peter, and said, Doth not your master pay tribute?
25. He saith, Yes. And when he was come into the house, Jesus prevented him, saying, What thinkest thou, Simon? of whom do the kings of the earth take custom or tribute? of their own children, or of strangers?
26. Peter saith unto him, Of strangers. Jesus saith unto him, Then are the children free.
27. Notwithstanding, lest we should offend them, go thou to the sea, and cast an hook, and take up the fish that first cometh up; and when thou hast opened his mouth, thou shalt find a piece of money: that take, and give unto them for me and thee.


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Eddie

 2007/6/17 13:12Profile
LoveHim
Member



Joined: 2007/6/14
Posts: 562
Indiana, US

 Re:

thanks rowdy2,

i appreciate the comments.i realize that this has been dabated on this forum mutiple times, i had just never seen it when i used to visit for 2 years without being a member..

to me this issue with tithes and offering is one of law and grace..i ask my friends and those at my church in indiana why we are obligated to keep the law of tithes and they say that you have to do it or

* your finances will be cursed..
* you will not be able to receive anything else from the Lord..
* God's Word in Malachai 3 says to do it

i always ask them "is there an amount of time i need to pray so that i will not be cursed??
what about reading the Bible, is there a certain amount i have to read to not be cursed??
what about witnessing, is there a number of souls i have to witness to each day so that i will not be cursed?? of course the answer is no.. so my question is, why is it grace and walking according to the Holy Spirit in every other area of my life, but i am obligated to keep a law in my finaces??

gal 2:21 i do not set aside the grace of God:for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain.

gal 3:13 Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us(for it is written "Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree")

gal 4:4-5 (4)but when the fulness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman under the law, (5) to redeem those who were under the law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.

gal 5:3 and i testify again to every man who becomes circumcised, that he is a debtor (obligated) to keep the whole law..

why is it that we as gentile christians that we do not obey the sabbath laws, circumcision laws, dietary laws, but when it comes to money, we have to tithe??

shall not the giving of money be a grace just like prayer, bible reading, witnessing, helping the poor, etc?? something that we need to offer to God and say "all is yours, to you i surrender. whatever you ask of me, it is yours".

i dare not try to condemn those who truly want to give a certain amount and pledge that to God (10%, 20%, etc). i am only talking about putting people under an obligation and compulsion..

i love you all brothers and sisters in Christ,

 2007/6/17 13:49Profile
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re:

Brother, no apologies needed!

I am in agreement,

Quote:
putting people under an obligation and compulsion..


Or in other words 'manipulation'


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Mike Balog

 2007/6/17 14:18Profile
winthrup7
Member



Joined: 2006/11/6
Posts: 12


 Re:

I think we have definitely neglected new testament instruction, especially 2 Corinthians 8 and 9. God loves a cheerful giver!

[i][color=CC0000]Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, [so let him give]; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.[/color][/i] (2 cor 9:7).

[i][color=CC0000]For the administration of this service not only supplieth the want of the saints, but is abundant also by many thanksgivings unto God; Whiles by the experiment of this ministration they glorify God for your professed subjection unto the gospel of Christ, and for [your] liberal distribution unto them, and unto all [men]; [/color][/i] (2 Cor. 9:12-13)

[i][color=CC0000]
Therefore, as ye abound in every [thing, in] faith, and utterance, and knowledge, and [in] all diligence, and [in] your love to us, [see] that ye abound in this grace also. I speak not by commandment, but by occasion of the forwardness of others, and to prove the sincerity of your love. For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that ye through his poverty might be rich. And herein I give [my] advice: for this is expedient for you, who have begun before, not only to do, but also to be forward a year ago. Now therefore perform the doing [of it]; that as [there was] a readiness to will, so [there may be] a performance also out of that which ye have. For if there be first a willing mind, [it is] accepted according to that a man hath, [and] not according to that he hath not. For [I mean] not that other men be eased, and ye burdened: But by an equality, [that] now at this time your abundance [may be a supply] for their want, that their abundance also may be [a supply] for your want: that there may be equality: As it is written, He that [had gathered] much had nothing over; and he that [had gathered] little had no lack. But thanks [be] to God, which put the same earnest care into the heart of Titus for you.
[/color][/i] (2 Cor 8:7-16)

There is obviously room to "exhort" (as Paul states) the body with regard to giving, but he said "i speak not by commandment...". The commandment of 10 percent is an unfortunate trend in today's church especially seeing that there is an abundance in America, even in our greed.

I am heart-broken over more and more young men who believe they are genuinely "called to be rich", and of course vow to write their pastor's big checks when needed. And so many give 10 percent, believing that God is obligated to give them more money, and instead of loving and worshiping Jesus, it appears that without noticing it, we give out of lust for more!

Not to mention Christians who are convinced that "10 percent is God's, and I get the rest!". This is what many believe. We do not have a fear of the Lord whereby we recognize that we are bought with a price; and God will require us to be faithful in this area as well (which means it is all God's, and we must surrender all of it to him)!

But is it possible the teaching of "law tithing" in the church is a product of minister's who care not to trust Jesus, but their budgets? I'm not sure, but we should definitely consider our ways in light of this glorious gospel of Jesus Christ.

I am not against saying "tithe's and offerings" in church, but would desire giving to be taught in light of Christ and the new covenant. We must have the full counsel of God!

Regardless of your persuasion about tithing, may we long for a bride of Christ who is faithful, holy, pure, giving, and can look after the interest's of Christ.

Oh that we might be a church that gives 100% of our lives and hearts for Jesus without complaint.

He is worthy, He is WORTHY!

May God have mercy on us all!

-w7

 2007/6/20 3:44Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4794


 Re: is tithing for today??

LoveHim wrote:

Quote:
if someone would like to defend tithing as for today, please feel free to do so and i would appreciate to get a lot of peoples thoughts,
convictions, and most important God's Word on this matter..



Acts 2:

42 And they continued steadfastly in the apostles’ doctrine and fellowship, in the breaking of bread, and in prayers. 43 Then fear came upon every soul, and many wonders and signs were done through the apostles. 44 Now all who believed were together, and had all things in common, 45 and sold their possessions and goods, and divided them among all, as anyone had need.

Do we have a heart like these believers?

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2007/6/20 6:25Profile
polo247uk
Member



Joined: 2006/12/21
Posts: 26
Princes Risborough, England

 Re: is tithing for today??

I understand the point being made linking the law with the grace we are under now pointing out from the old Malachai 3 then countering it with gal 3:13 Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us(for it is written "Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree")

But if we go back even before the law
Gen 14:18 And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he [was] the priest of the most high God.
Gen 14:19 And he blessed him, and said, Blessed [be] Abram of the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth:
Gen 14:20 And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all.


_________________
Paulo West

 2007/6/20 9:34Profile
LoveHim
Member



Joined: 2007/6/14
Posts: 562
Indiana, US

 Re:

thank you brothers for offering your thoughts on the matter..i greatly appreciate your time and thoughts..

brother polo247uk,

my question regarding those scriptures are

1) does scripture show that this was commanded?

2) does scripture show if this was a reoccuring situation or a one time thing?

3) what did abram give a tithe of? his own livestock and increase or the goods from the war?

i think if we really study abram or jacob, we will see that this idea of tithing is so far than what happened in either case.

what we see in abram's case was that it was not commanded of him. we see that in scripture, it was a one time occurance and he did not tithe his possessions, but rather the goods from the war when he retrieved lot. anything else, would be merely speculating at best and twisting scripture to say what people may want it to say at worst..

in jacob's case, he said "if you give me bread, if you give me clothing, if you make my journey well, then i shall give you a tenth (gen 28:20-22) (my paraphrase).. i don't know of any tithe preachers that say " wait until the Lord prospers you and increases your possessions greatly, then give Him a tenth".. instead many say "give now while you have nothing and then the Lord will bless you"

in light of this, i think that it would be shaky to base a law of tithing on these such scriptures and/or people..

thank you so much for adding to this post..i love you all in Christ..

 2007/6/20 13:48Profile





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