SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Image Map
Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : What is the Church?

Print Thread (PDF)

PosterThread
LiveforGod
Member



Joined: 2007/4/17
Posts: 299


 What is the Church?

Please brethren, do not judge me on the subject; but I agree with every word D.S. Warner is saying here.

The words church and churches occur in the New Testament 109 times, always translated from ekklesia, which
would have been more correctly rendered congregation, which, with the Bible qualifications, would have read, “the
congregation of God,” “the congregation of the first-born,” etc., denoting its divine Founder and Owner. And, “the
congregation that was at Antioch,” “The congregation of God which was at Corinth,” “The congregation of Asia,” “The
congregation of Galatia,” etc., denoting the different geographical locations of the congregations of God. But whether
we use the word church, as in common use, or congregation, the more correct appellation, we should only attach such
meaning to it as agrees with the Word of God. To use a Bible word out of its biblical meaning is perverting the Bible.

What then is the Bible definition of the church? Answer: “And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him
to be the head over all things to the church, which is his body, the fullness of him that filleth all in all.” Eph. 1:22, 23.

“And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he
might have the preeminence.” Col. 1:18. “Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind
of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body’s sake, which is the church.” Col. 1:24.

The church is the body of Christ. And its being the body of Christ, necessarily includes all His members.
Therefore to call an earthly building the church is ridiculous, and to call an organized division the church is subverting
the truth. No sect contains all the body of Christ, therefore, no sect is the church of God. Then as honest men, who
expect to be judged by the Word of God, let us never call anything the church but the body of Christ; i. e., all the saved,
either universally, or in any given locality. By Daniel Sindey Warner.


_________________
Samuel

 2007/6/16 12:11Profile









 Re: What is the Church?

LiveForGod, you should never be worried about posting the definition from/of the Greek here.

That is the definition, right from the Strong's and any other Greek Lexicon.

εκκλησία
ekklēsia
ek-klay-see'-ah
From a compound of "G1537" and a derivative of "G2564"; a calling out, that is, (concretely) a popular meeting, especially a religious congregation (Jewish synagogue, or Christian community of members on earth or saints in heaven or both): - assembly, church.

Used as "assembly" in -
Act 19:32, Act 19:39, Act 19:41


Good points. Thanks.

 2007/6/16 12:30
LiveforGod
Member



Joined: 2007/4/17
Posts: 299


 Re:

Thank you (GrannieAnnie), for the support. I just think that simple things like these Glorify God, and also helps those who do not know.God Bless


_________________
Samuel

 2007/6/16 12:34Profile
LoveHim
Member



Joined: 2007/6/14
Posts: 562
Indiana, US

 Re: What is the Church?

dear liveforGod and grannieannie,

thank you so much for the question and post..
this is especially close to my heart because it wasn't until the last year that the Lord really began to challenge me with the question "What is the true church"? in my 8 years of walking with the Lord, i had never really explored that question to its roots and looked at what God says about it.. i knew that it was the body of Christ, but more than that, what is the church of Christ.

it was through this search that i began to learn that we are not only his body, but his bride and his dwelling place..
i learned that not my denomination or local building is the church, but all those believers that are filled with the Holy Spirit and are joined together in 1 body unto the head which is Christ..
we are his visible expression of love, hope, truth, justice, mercy and grace to the lost.

i don't want to talk too much, but i love the question and encourage others who have never really explored the depths of that question to really do so because if will be so beneficial to you and to those you meet.

thank you guys for the post and love you all in Christ our head.

 2007/6/16 13:46Profile
LiveforGod
Member



Joined: 2007/4/17
Posts: 299


 Re:

No problem Brother. I'm glad to hear that from you. The Lord put in my heart to share this with SI, because I know that many people do not have a clear view of what the Church really is. Well, anyway.Thank you.


_________________
Samuel

 2007/6/16 14:41Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re: What is the Church?

Actually the problem is a little different to the way you express it. The problem is with the word 'church'. The English word "church" comes from the Greek "kuriakes" which means something which belongs to the Lord. The Greek word "kuriakes" was later associated with the phrase 'oikia kuriakes' which means the Lord's house and did mean a building.

The real problem is that the word "church" should never have been used. William Tyndale never translated the Greek word "ekklesia" by the English word "church". He always used the word "congregation". He did use the word "church" twice but as a description of heathen temples in the Acts of the Apostles.

When King James authorised a new translation of the Bible he wanted to return to the use of old religious language. He specifically instructed his translators to translate the Greek word "ekklesia" as "church", thus overriding Tyndale's more accurate choice.

Since that time we have been stuck with the word "church" and although we frequently tell people that the "church" isn't a building but people, it would be more accurate to say an "ekklesia" is not a "church". Modern translations generally follow the lead of the KJV here and just repeat the error of using the word "church" to translate the Greek word "ekklesia".

Personally, I try not to use the word "church" but prefer to use "assembly" or "the gathered saints".


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2007/6/16 15:31Profile
LiveforGod
Member



Joined: 2007/4/17
Posts: 299


 Re:

Thank you (philologos) for what you added to this post. I already Know that you Know more than I do in the subject, for wich I tank Thank the Lord for. May the Lord keep using your Knoladge for his own Glory.God bless. Brother Sammy


_________________
Samuel

 2007/6/16 15:40Profile
LoveHim
Member



Joined: 2007/6/14
Posts: 562
Indiana, US

 Re:

thanks philologos,

i appreciate the background on the word church..
that is very interesting to find out..
i perfer the word assembly as well.

 2007/6/16 15:48Profile
Sealed
Member



Joined: 2006/5/13
Posts: 22
Milwaukee WI

 Re: Who Is The True Church?

One of the greatest deceptions in the so-called “churches” of our modern day is the definition of the word “church” itself. We tend to think of it as a building, an institution, a denomination, or a worship service. None of these accurately capture the true meaning of the Greek word “ekklesia.”

There is evidence that the word church originally comes from the old English and Germanic word kirke, (pronounced "keer - kay"), and which itself came from the Babylonian for the goddess Circe (pronounced "seer-say"). The goddess Circe was thought to be connected with the power of the sun, which is round, and thus the connection to Circe, a circle. In Anglo-Saxon history, the pagans worshipped the sun standing in a circle [kirke]. These pagan worshippers became known as the “circle“, or the “kirke“, then ultimately the “church.” Therefore, the word “church” predates Christianity and is actually a pagan term rather than a Christian one.

The first complete English Bible was the Tyndale Bible in about 1524, and that Bible did not use the word "church" anywhere in its pages, but instead used the word "congregation." This is a more accurate translation, even though it doesn’t quite capture the original meaning of “ekklesia“. The word “church” crept into our English translations soon after, probably because of pagans who accepted some form of Christianity and retained the word “church” from their pagan circle’ to refer to their Christian meeting.

King James was the “Head” of the Church of England, which is essentially the Anglican Church, or the equivalent of England’s Roman Catholic Church. At the time of the 1611 King James translation, the Roman Church, as well as the Anglican Church were threatened by separatist and reform movements, and many of their false doctrines were being threatened with being exposed. By translating the Greek word “ekklesia” as “Church,” the Anglican so-called “church” was able to claim to hold the power of salvation over people, just as the Catholic Church does. This is because of a misunderstanding of who the “ekklesia” really is.

The word “ekklesia” comes from two Greek words: Ek means out and Kaleo means call, and this is the verb form. When we put the two together and write the noun form of it, it is Ekklesia and means "called out ones". This is the way it is always used in the Greek language. It means an assembly of people who are called out for a purpose.

It is used seventy times in the Septuagint which is the Greek translation of the Old Testament from 200-300 BC. It translates the Hebrew word kahal (from which latter we have our word call), as “sunagoge” and “ekklesia.” “Ekklesia” occurs in New Testament 115 times (36 in plural), and is always translated "church" except in Acts 19:32, 39, 41 where it is translated “assembly. “

The word ekklesia is also used to translate the Hebrew word miqra in the Septuagint, because it also means “called out.” Miqra is the word that the English Bibles usually translate as “convocation“, as in "it shall be a holy convocation unto you" (Lev. 23:36). So in the Old Testament the phrase “called out” is translated as convocation and in the New Testament the same phrase is translated as “church.” They have the same meaning, but because of the different English words they are made to seem different from each other.

“Ekklesia” was most often used as a political term prior to the Bible, not a religious one. In classical Greek "ekklesia" meant "an assembly of citizens summoned by the crier, the legislative assembly." It essentially refers to an assembly of people who have been brought together for a common purpose. If it was for a political purpose, it would then be a political assembly; if called out for a social purpose, it would be a social assembly.

We see a political, or anti-religious “ekklesia,” or church, called out in Acts 19:25-41. Verse 25 tells us that they were called together; verse 32 tells us that it was an assembly (ekklesia, church), but here was an ekklesia (assembly, church) that was called to work against Paul who had come to preach the gospel to the heathen city, Ephesus. This is not a religious church (assembly), but a plotting church meeting to stir up the people to destroy Paul. When we think of the word “church” today, we tend to think of it as a religious word, but that is not necessarily the case.

The early believers did not view the Church as an institution. Instead, they saw themselves as the “body of God’s people” united under the leadership and control of His Messiah. Using the term “ekklesia” and their meetings together in each other’s homes gave them greater solidarity and allows them to better understand God’s true calling for the Church. God called them to be bound together closer than any other group and to put off any differences that arose

This is the true meaning of “ekklesia.” It refers to the born-again Christians whom God has called out of the world, rather than referring to any particular institution. By choosing this misleading word, the early Catholic/Anglican translators were able to fool the masses into putting their faith in the “church” as an institution, rather than realizing that we are the Church. Almost all modern translations of the bible have also translated “ekklesia” as “church” because this term has become an integral part of our English language. As Christians we have been called out of the world by our Lord for a specific purpose.

"But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God's own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;" (1 Peter 2:9).

The first time ekklesia (church) is used in the spiritual sense is in Matthew 16:18, where Jesus promised to build His church (ekklesia). Applied spiritually, it refers to those who are called out of the word (John 17). It is sometimes used to denote all the called ones without any particular geographic designation (Matthew 16: 18), and of the called in a particular geographic area (I Corinthians 1: 2). "Church" used universally (all the called ones) is always used in the singular. "Churches," plural, refers to a number of local assemblies of called ones. Hence, Paul wrote, "... The churches of Christ salute you" (Rom. 16: 16). "Church" denotes the called ones who have banded together and appointed overseers. (Acts 14: 23). The local church, when fully organized has elders and deacons (Phil. 1: 1; I Tim. 3: 1-13). "Church" is also used of the banded together called ones in the absence of the full organization(Acts 14: 23).

Out of the 115 times "church" is used in the Greek New Testament, it never refers to the building in which the church meets. "Church" is also never used to denote denominations. Denominations did not exist in the First Century Church, and most of he people in these denominations today, are not part of Christ’s “ekklesia” because their faith is in an institution and it’s false teachings, rather than in Christ’s atonement alone.

The true "Church" consists of those who have been called out of the world by Christ by placing our faith in Him.

SealedEternal

 2007/6/17 14:52Profile









 Re: Assembly

Quote:
Sealed wrote -

“Ekklesia” was most often used as a political term prior to the Bible, not a religious one. In classical Greek "ekklesia" meant "an assembly of citizens summoned by the crier, the legislative assembly." It essentially refers to an assembly of people who have been brought together for a common purpose. If it was for a political purpose, it would then be a political assembly; if called out for a social purpose, it would be a social assembly.

We see a political, or anti-religious “ekklesia,” or church, called out in Acts 19:25-41. Verse 25 tells us that they were called together; verse 32 tells us that it was an assembly (ekklesia, church), but here was an ekklesia (assembly, church) that was called to work against Paul who had come to preach the gospel to the heathen city, Ephesus. This is not a religious church (assembly), but a plotting church meeting to stir up the people to destroy Paul. When we think of the word “church” today, we tend to think of it as a religious word, but that is not necessarily the case.




Thanks Sealed and Ron.

I posted Acts 19:25 up there and when I did I thought about exactly what you've added in this quote.

The sad part was, that I see this description you've given above as exactly what is going on in "the church" or world now.
Four types of churches, one just a social event, one political, one antagonistic against others and one that just wants to fellowship and benefit & bless the Body.

Putting aside those "social club" type churches ...... Where do we divide/quit the antagonism against each other (as under the "Sects" thread) AND also, how can we explain "the church" gathering as a "Political" assembly ?
In other words where and when should the Church leave politics alone ?


Thanks!


addition edit.

 2007/6/17 15:57





©2002-2020 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Affiliate Disclosure | Privacy Policy