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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Prayer and Worship TO the Holy Spirit?

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narrowpath
Member



Joined: 2005/1/9
Posts: 1067
Germany NRW

 Prayer and Worship TO the Holy Spirit?

I agree with most Christians that God is Father, Son, and Holy Ghost and that they are distinct persons although they are one. They are in perfect agreement, yet they fulfil different roles and have different realms.

I believe the Spirit helps us to pray, he comforts us, He bears witness of our childhood towards God. He works miracles through the believers. He reveals Gods prophetic word to his prophets. He reveals Gods mysteries to us and He can be grieved. We can rejoice in Him. We can be troubled and angry and sad in the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit distributes gifts and works fruit. This is not an exhaustive listing.

I believe the Spirit takes a servant role to the Son and the Father. Jesus was filled with the Spirit and not vice versa. Jesus asked the Father to send the Spirit. The Son submits to the Father, the Spirit reveals and glorifies the Father and the Son.

In many churches nowadays people pray TO the Spirit and worship the Holy Spirit as you can find in many contemporary choruses. They invite the Holy Spirit and sometimes even presume to invoke the Spirits presence or manifestation. Although the Spirit is God, I am not aware that it is recommended anywhere in the bible to pray TO the Spirit or worship Him explicitly. I am concerned that this can lead to a wrong perception of God and I feel uncomfortable about it. It appears to me that especially in charismatic churches the practice of worshipping THE Spirit often has the intention to facilitate manifestations or the supernatural that borders on voyeurism, hence the occurrence of phenomenon like the Toronto Blessing. I am afraid it can distract us away from the cross which is the dominion of both the Father and the Son. God had sacrificed his Son, Jesus obeyed in all and subjected himself to be crushed for our sins to bring salvation to all those who believe. The Spirit never sacrificed nor was sacrificed, but He lives now in us and always point to the Father and Son.

The word of God recommends Worship and prayer IN the Spirit in IN truth addressed to the Father and the Son. Much more can be said about the trinity and it is one of the great mysteries that will take forever to fully understand.

By no means do I want to downplay the position and deity of the Holy Spirit. Without Him I would not be able to know God at all. I just try to understand his due role and position in relation to the son and the father as well as the believers .

However, my intention with this post is to try to discuss the implications and legality of worship and prayer to the Holy Spirit. David Wilkerson warned against such practise in his some of his sermons Christless Pentecost 1+2
and Christ A Stranger
http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=3858
http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=332
http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=333

Your comments are welcome.

narrowpath

 2007/6/14 19:20Profile









 Re: Prayer and Worship IN or TO the Holy Spirit?

narrowpath, you hit the problem in the "Spirit-filled" Churches right on the head.

I've seen more focus on the Holy Spirit then on Jesus. The Churches are no where near as Christocentric as they were.
I believe this is the warning that Paul gave, about when one presents "another spirit" 2Co 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

Thank you for your post.

 2007/6/14 19:42
Tears_of_joy
Member



Joined: 2003/10/30
Posts: 1554


 Re: Prayer and Worship IN or TO the Holy Spirit?

Quote:
However, my intention with this post is to try to discuss the implications and legality of worship and prayer to the Holy Spirit. David Wilkerson warned against such practise in his some of his sermons Christless Pentecost 1+2
and Christ A Stranger
http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=3858
http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=332
http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=333



Hi brother Philip, this is very good sermon!
Just to make a note that this is one sermon, not two. The second and the third are just splitted, but I think are with better quality.



[url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=3858]A Christless Pentecost! - Is Christ Becoming A Stranger In Our Midst?[/url]
(one file)

[url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=332]Christless Pentecost! - Is Christ Becoming A Stranger In Our Midst?[/url] - Part 1
[url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=333]Christless Pentecost! - Is Christ Becoming A Stranger In Our Midst?[/url] - Part 2
(the same file but splitted and with better quality)

[url=http://www.tscpulpitseries.org/english/1980s/ts820001.html]Text Version[/url]

 2007/6/14 19:47Profile
narrowpath
Member



Joined: 2005/1/9
Posts: 1067
Germany NRW

 Prayer and worshipTO the Holy Spirit?

Hello Kire,

I believe it was you who pointed me to these sermons and this issue has been on my ever mind since.

Philip

 2007/6/14 19:59Profile
HomeFree89
Member



Joined: 2007/1/21
Posts: 797
Indiana

 Re: Prayer and worshipTO the Holy Spirit?

Correct me if I'm wrong.

Jesus sent the Spirit (Comforter) to us and isn't that who we come to now?

The Holy Spirit was the one who revealed to Stephen, Jesus standing at the right hand of God. (Acts 7:55-56)

God gives us the Holy Spirit as a gift, so doesn't that mean we are to communicate with Him? (Luke 11:13)

And in Acts 1, the Holy Spirit gave commandments to the apostles. It seems that He is the one who we now communicate with.

Jordan


_________________
Jordan

 2007/6/14 20:15Profile
HomeFree89
Member



Joined: 2007/1/21
Posts: 797
Indiana

 Re:

[edit] Info not needed


_________________
Jordan

 2007/6/14 20:17Profile









 Re: Prayer and Worship TO the Holy Spirit?

ok, i have deleted what i said previously in the thought that it might not be edifying. but i will tell you, i am kind of offended by the Original posters' comment about Him, i.e, the holy spirit. i would tell you from teaching i read, and a couple of incidents i have seen with my eyes, that the spiritual world is nothing of what we perceive it to be save we have eyes to see and ears to hear in due obedience to the Holy Ghost. i feel almost this whole issue is the very reason, i myself don't see the desperate need to cry and weep everyday

 2007/6/14 21:04
dohzman
Member



Joined: 2004/10/13
Posts: 2132


 Basic purpose of the Holy Spirit

Joh 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
Joh 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will show you things to come.


The Holy Spirit is prophetic in nature and points to Jesus Christ. That's just a basic plain understanding for you guys.
Jesus points to the Father, the Father honors the Son, the Holy Spirit points to Jesus. We reconize Jesus Christ as God and Lord, as such He (Jesus) brings us into a relationship with the Father but it takes the Holy Spirits help in us and toward us to accomplish this. So our great need in order to be true worshippers of God is the Holy Spirit, however we don't directly worship this third person of the trinity in the way we do the Son and the Father.

Just like the tongues issue I just know my response here has opened up a can of worms.


_________________
D.Miller

 2007/6/14 23:12Profile
narrowpath
Member



Joined: 2005/1/9
Posts: 1067
Germany NRW

 Re: Prayer and Worship IN or TO the Holy Spirit?

Dear Sam,

I do not quite understand your comment.

ok, i have deleted what i said previously in the thought that it might not be edifying. but i will tell you, i am kind of offended by the Original posters' comment about Him, i.e, the holy spirit. i would tell you from teaching i read, and a couple of incidents i have seen with my eyes, that the spiritual world is nothing of what we perceive it to be save we have eyes to see and ears to hear in due obedience to the Holy Ghost. i feel almost this whole issue is the very reason, i myself don't see the desperate need to cry and weep everyday

 2007/6/15 20:02Profile









 Re: Prayer and Worship TO the Holy Spirit?

hi narrowpath. i have never directly talked to you, but this will be great thanks for asking.
sorry i have left you confused, don't mean to.

my friend i am not offended, maybe saddened. i just want to say He is still God. if He is God, what is the point of not wanting to pray to Him...isn't it all three that dwell in us, when we become temples of the living God, plenty of that doctrine can be gleaned from Paul's letters. so, in the same sense, what prevents my prayers being directed to the Spirit?
listen your issue is not about praying to the Spirit. may i presume to say- what you want to deal with is whether on how to distinguish of what comes from truly from the throne of the Father, and what comes from the Dark kingdom. i believe if God were to reveal my eyes to the darkness that has consumed the land, and the pit that is Hades, i would be on my knees day and night. we are way always too quick to jump to the Bible for our answers thinking really all answers are found in the Bible, when in reality the answer is not a book but a person. the Book is the veiled person, but that veil doesn't come off unless the Holy Spirit comes and takes it off for us. may be a poor explanation? how can you imagine all those in hebrews 11 worshipped God without having a supernatural experience about God? way too many instances in the Scriptures to discount such a thing so, don't you think?

 2007/6/15 22:10





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