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IRONMAN
Member



Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 Re:

bro SealedEternal

Greetings in Jesus Name by whose Blood we are Reconciled to God. AMEN.

it seems to me that the perfection which is to come is the coming to the fullness of Christ being made in us. That Christ is all things for us, after all the point of salvation and Holy Spirit indwelling us is to see the Image of Christ made in us right? Have i stepped into that yet? No sadly. but like Paul i press on toward that goal to see Him formed in me. Have you come to that place of Perfection? if you have please help a brother out! Nobody is saying that the scriptures are not complete because they are. One thing we must understand about the scriptures being that they are of God, they are like Him being inexhaustable. They have many many layers like their Author whose depths we can't fathom and have not even begun to begin to start to commense to embark upon understanding! As such we remain in need of every gift of the Spirit until that time. What is a word of Wisdom if not to explain the greater depths of what the word is saying to us beyond the text? What is Prophecy if not the telling forth of the Heart of God to His people about what He has said in the Holy Book? What are signs and wonders if not the expression of the Power of God to men in a manner which can't be otherwise explained as it is written in His Holy Book? What are the apostles, prophets, evangelists, preachers and teachers and those who work signs and wonders and so on if not ministers of God who bring forth various aspects of Him as it is written in His HOly Book. as long as there remain unbelievers who are called to God to the Faith, these things remain necessary. i was listening to Willie Mullen who was a Baptist preacher speaking on this and he had the same view as you do. perhaps this is prevalent in baptist circles, forgive me i don't know much about the various denominational doctrines. All the same i was grieved by this because it speaks of an arrogance inherent in man which seeks to push God out of the picture somehow. it is as though we think because the canon is complete, we can figure it out without Him. Perhaps i am wrong in this sentiment, if so, may God correct me.

If the gift of tongues was for the benefit of unbelieving Jews, what of the Gentiles? The Gospel was to the Jew first and then the Gentile. i don't think (and GOd forgive me if i am presuming at all) God would deal with the Jews in one way and not do the same with Gentiles in the manner of signs and wonders as testimony of Him. Then also the gifts could not have ceased because there are yet unbelieveing Jews who need salvation in many nations who also need this display for that purpose. Or perhaps i am wrong there.

it seems to me that as long as there are souls out there which yet need Salvation, the gifts must be in operation but more importantly until Christ is formed in us all to completion and it is evident in our Unity in Mind, Spirit and All Things, we yet need Prophecy, Wisdom and WOnders and such because they work toward that end. That work was not completed in the first century, there were some disagreements even among the 12 as there are yet to this day. until such time as all those are done away with, we remain in need of these gifts. i suppose the Fullness of this will be attained in the great adversity which is to come upon us which will burn away the dross which is upon us as we press into God. He is coming for a Church without spot or wrinkle and i guess this is His wisdom, that He would bring us to perfection in a less than perfect setting amid the chaos wrought by sin so as to say to the enemy "I told you i could make them like Jesus in your face"

makes me say oh the depths of the Knowledge and Wisdom of God,.[i][b]WHO[/b][/i] has been His counselor?

Grace and Peace be yours in Jesus' NAme. AMEN


_________________
Farai Bamu

 2007/6/16 18:57Profile
Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

Quote:

Sealed wrote:
1 Corinthians 13:8-10 Love never fails; but if there are gifts of prophecy, they will be done away; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will be done away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part; but when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away.

The word for "perfect" here actually means completed.

What is implyed is heaven.

When we all get to heaven, we will not need Faith, hope, any of the gifts but the greatest of these is love.
And that means that love will always continue.

 2007/6/16 20:14Profile









 Re:

Quote:


Quote:
-----------------------------

GrannieAnnie wrote:
I just wanted to reply back to Logic's post to me, though you answered that ... but I'd just like to add for Logic, that unless one has been used in "any" of the gifts ... especially the vocal ones, which are most of them ... they would have no idea how they operate through a mere human who is not 'accustomed' to being used that way by GOD.

Thanks y'all.
-------------------------------
by Logic -

I have been used in the Word of Wisdom, Healing, and Gift of Faith and I have close friends that have been used in others.

I know how the Spirit works and moves. I know that one can not plan, choose, initiate, or will
to be used in any of them, even toungues.

One does not genuinly speek/pray in toungs daily just as one does not speak Words of Wisom or Knowlege daily.



Hia Logic, I was responding to your response to countymounty, where he said that at first, the vocal gifts may not be matured yet.

I know that many many people are shy of or fearful of their own flesh or their imagination, etc., when first being used in a vocal gift, so they need time to gain confidence, that what they may say is truly from GOD.
Whether it be a message in tongues, interpretation, prophecy, words of knowledge or wisdom, or even discerning of spirits can be something that a person may feel they better 'test' before they blurb those out.

I see nothing wrong in "testing" the spirit to see if it is from God, no matter how long that one has been used in the gifts.

Over a year ago, when this topic came up, I exegeted the gift verses to show from the Greek that there are two "tongues" ... one is just a personal prayer language the other is the Gift that is used within the fellowship. Not everyone who has the prayer language speaks a message in tongues at Church. That's not the gift that God uses them in.

Paul said, he prayed in tongues and with understanding. When praying, the Holy Spirit burdens us, that our 'understanding' of what's needed in prayer is not sufficient, so that is when the Holy Spirit will pray through us.

I never said "at will". I don't believe any of the 9 gifts are resident or used at will.

But I do believe that the "praying in the Spirit" is a commandment - whether it is in your own native tongue or the tongues of angels or what ever the Holy Spirit prays through us.
Even our worship is to be in the Spirit and not the flesh. But that doesn't make tongues an at will thing then neither, unless the Holy Spirit puts that burden in us.

Thank GOD Paul was obedient to sandwich the chpt on Love between the two Gift chpt.s.

His Love to you brother.
Annie

 2007/6/17 0:34
Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

Quote:
GrannieAnnie wrote:
Hia Logic, I was responding to your response to countymounty, where he said that at first, the vocal gifts may not be matured yet.

there is no matureing of a gift. That does not make any sence. God does not give imature gifts.

Quote:
GrannieAnnie wrote:
I know that many many people are shy of or fearful of their own flesh or their imagination, etc., when first being used in a vocal gift, so they need time to gain confidence, that what they may say is truly from GOD.

Okay, I guess some one could be nervous as with a kind of "stage fright.

Quote:
GrannieAnnie wrote:
Over a year ago, when this topic came up, I exegeted the gift verses to show from the Greek that there are two "tongues" ... one is just a personal prayer language the other is the Gift that is used within the fellowship. Not everyone who has the prayer language speaks a message in tongues at Church. That's not the gift that God uses them in...
...I never said "at will". I don't believe any of the 9 gifts are resident or used at will.

True, [color=990000]the one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing separately to each as [b]He[/b] wills[/color][b]1Corinth 12:11[/b].

There are alot of people that will ramble on with "tongues" any time they want and call that the gift of tongues.
I've seen/heard some "speak in tongues" for an example, to show someone how they do it.

That is equivalent to this:
Quote:
Here, I will show you how the gift of miracles works....(((***[b][size=large]Miracal[/size][/b]***)))



Quote:
GrannieAnnie wrote:
But I do believe that the "praying in the Spirit" is a commandment - whether it is in your own native tongue or the tongues of angels or what ever the Holy Spirit prays through us.

True, one may be baptised with the Holy Spirit as much as one wants, and I encourage that.

 2007/6/17 19:31Profile





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