SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Image Map
Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : speaking in tongues

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 Next Page )
PosterThread
coolcap2007
Member



Joined: 2007/2/22
Posts: 29


 speaking in tongues

i always feel uncomfortable when people speak in tongues. In fact i dont like it at all. When i hear someone speak in tongues it just makes me feel weird about christianity. Now i would say that maybe i need more faith, but i have been thinking for a while and i wonder where people get the idea that speaking in tongues is all this "lalalala, yayayaya,babababa" i mean all i see in the bible is that it was none of this. For example in acts, it says that people spoke in languages that all the jews could understand and that they were already familiar with...so speaking in tongues here was not babalalayaya,anyways, if you read other scripture in acts, it never talks about people needing interpreters, and it never says what tongues sounded like, obviously our only time we know what exactly speaking in tongues was, was when it says they spoke in langauges that all jews could understand. Now of course in other parts of the bible, like corinthians, we are told that there should be an interpreter, but this doesnt mean speaking in tongues is lalababa, and it says that if you speak in a church with tongues people will think your out of your mind so dont have the whole church doing this. now people might say, "see, it says people will think your out of your mind, so it makes sense that lalababayaya is correct. But remember in the book of acts when they spoke in languages that all jews were familiar with and could understand, other people thought they were drunk. so again, no where in the bible do we get the lalayayababa...and if in acts you have people speaking different tongues, for all jews to understand, why is it that its always the same thing from every tongue speaking christian...lalayayababa...thats all i have been saying because thats all you ever hear. I have never heard tatatata. Seriously, i dont think i ever want to speak in tongues because it freaks people out including myself and i have a good reason for feeling this way because no where in the bible could anyone back up thier reasoning for..yes again...the same old lalalabababayayaya. i even heard this lady say a very long yayayababalala and then someone interpreted it and it actually came out to be something very short...now why would she be saying lalalalbababyaya for a very long time and then the interpreter said it was something very short? i think if people really spoke in correct tongues it would be something closer to where maybe someone could preach a little something to a chinese or basically something in a different langauge so that someone who doesnt understand english could maybe believe and be saved, but then again i stick with the bible 100% and i know that this wouldnt make people think someone speaking in chinese is drunk. So i dont know what speaking in tongues could be, but from what i gather, its not any kind of lalayayababa. im not saying its not, im just saying that if i read the bible and have never heard all that lalayayababa, i would definiatley never have that cross my mind. i would probably think it had to do with speaking in a language all people could understand or atleast all people that are around you could understand.

 2007/6/11 2:00Profile
hmmhmm
Member



Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4991
Sweden

 Re: speaking in tongues

here is an article fom Zac poonen on this issue, this is to me a good article, but its always good to look what other sources say to.

But i find this article well-balanced when usually people hold one side or the other,

http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=15276&forum=34&4


_________________
CHRISTIAN

 2007/6/11 2:54Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re: speaking in tongues

Quote:
Seriously, i dont think i ever want to speak in tongues because it freaks people out including myself and i have a good reason for feeling this way because no where in the bible could anyone back up thier reasoning for..yes again...the same old lalalabababayayaya.


I have been speaking in tongues for almost 50 years now and am grateful to God for this spirit-expression of my heart's deepest joys and longings. In the whole 50 years there has never been a single 'lalalabababayayaya'

You view is different to Paul's who thanked God that he spoke with tongues. Guess whose counsel I am going to take?


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2007/6/11 3:16Profile









 Re: speaking in tongues

This type of tongues is called "glossolalia". You can read more about it [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glossolalia]here[/url].

We need to remember who Paul was addressing: the Church at Corinth. What was near Corinth?

"[b]Delphi[/b] is located on a plateau on the slope of Mount Parnassus, next to the Sanctuary of Apollo, the site of the ancient Oracle. This semicircular spur is known as Phaedriades, and overlooks the Pleistos Valley. Southwest of Delphi, about 15 km away, is the harbor-city of Kirrha on the [b]Corinthian Gulf[/b]." [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oracle_of_Delphi#Oracle]Oracle of Delphi - Wikipedia[/url]

"Glossolalia is evident in the renowned ancient [b]Oracle of Delphi[/b], whereby a priestess of the god Apollo (called a sibyl) speaks in unintelligible utterances, supposedly through the spirit of Apollo in her."

[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glossolalia]Glossolalia - Wikipedia[/url]

"Apollo spoke through his oracle, who had to be an older woman of blameless life chosen from among the peasants of the area. The sybyl or prophetess took the name Pythia and sat on a tripod seat over an opening in the Earth. When Apollo slew Python, its body fell into this fissure, according to legend, and fumes arose from its decomposing body. Intoxicated by the vapors, the sibyl would fall into trance, allowing Apollo to possess her spirit. In this state she prophesied. She spoke in riddles, which were interpreted by the priests of the temple, and people consulted her on everything from important matters of public policy to personal affairs."

[url=http://www.nwe.ufl.edu/~gulmer/academy/e.html]Delphi @ University of Florida[/url]

"[b]The City of Corinth was less than 50 miles across the Corinthian Gulf from Delphi[/b]. To the Greeks, Delphi was considered the center of the earth. There was a stone set in place that was called the navel of the earth. Delphi had the Delphic oracle, which belonged to the Earth goddess, and was supposedly guarded by a serpent, Python. (Keep the serpent Python image in view.)

At the Delphi temple they practiced a pagan glossolalia. It was this influence of the pagan glossolalia that was strongly felt not only in Corinth, but also in the Grecian world. (You can study this in most encyclopedias.)

The way the oracle worked was that a male prophet at the temple would receive a question from an inquirer. The question could be personal, or about government affairs, or whatever.

The inquirer would be brought into the presence of a young woman priestess of Apollo who was said to have a "pythonic spirit." Paul encountered one of these priestesses at Philippi. (Cf. Acts 16:16)

The young woman would fall into a state of frenzied ecstasy, and would begin to speak in tongues that were unintelligible. The attending priest would then interpret the language for the inquirer's benefit.

(Now for the benefit of those who do, or do not believe in speaking in tongues, that is not the issue at stake. And I don't want this to be made an issue in discussing this Bible study. Just say with the facts as you know them.)

It is important to understand that Paul never took away from there being a gifting from God concerning speaking in other languages. But people who had been to the Delphic priest were beginning to show up in the congregation, and very likely, even some of the priests and priestesses were entering. The Christians would have been considered a threat to the Delphic oracle. Plus the fact that the Corinthian believers would have felt like they were in competition with the Delphic oracles. This is likely why there was such a strong stress on speaking in tongues in this group. You don't find it in the other churches. Paul did his best to bring a balance."

[url=http://www.christianchallenge.org/hebraic-foundations/HF011.html]Paul & The Oracles of Delphi - Christian Challenge[/url]

 2007/6/11 3:52
roman
Member



Joined: 2005/4/18
Posts: 41


 Re:

Can you believe that in our language, you can make a conversation using only two letters but in our language it is one alphabet. The alphabet is "Ba."

Here's the situation that actually happened & I heard this story from an unbeliever friend. Just before I heard this story, I was asking God whether my "speaking tongue" has any meaning because it sounds like just like "tototo . . . " similar to "lalala . . . " I have this tongue for 10 years.


Scene:

A guy is waiting for the lift to go down. As the lift opened, a fellow Filipino was in the lift. So the guy asked the fellow Filipino in lift saying "Bababa ba?" (Is it going down?)

The guy in the lift responded "Bababa!" (It's going down).


This is not the only testimony I can give you about tongues that seems to be just a bubbling of the tongue. Just because we dont understand it, it doesnt mean anything. There's a lot of tribal languages that seems to be just a bubbling of tongue & I can give you testimony on this.

Just a thought to share, instead of being hard on the things we dont fully understand just a have reservations on this issues until we recieve a greater light on it.

The Lord bless you.

roman


 2007/6/11 4:12Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
It is important to understand that Paul never took away from there being a gifting from God concerning speaking in other languages. But people who had been to the Delphic priest were beginning to show up in the congregation, and very likely, even some of the priests and priestesses were entering.


This is sheer speculation and has no basis in the records.


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2007/6/11 7:04Profile









 Re:

philologos said

Quote:
This is sheer speculation and has no basis in the records.



It's not "sheer speculation", it's a very rational, and logical, inference.

The Sybils (Female Oracles, or Priestesses) allowed themselves to be possessed by Apollo (remember Apollyon [Abaddon/Destroyer], king of the locusts with the hair of women from REV 9).

This happened at Delphi.

Delphi was on the Corinthian Gulf right next door to Corinth.

The only letter that mentions anything about glossolalia is to the Corinthians - in which Paul likens it to speaking like "barbarians"... or like a madman.

At the end of Chapter 14, I COR, Paul ends off on the subject of glossolalia: "Let your women keep silence in the churches..." As in [b]your[/b] Priestesses of Apollo, not godly women like Priscilla, etc...

Paul was speaking to the Corinthians specifically, not to Christians generally, about tongues. He wasn't encouraging people everywhere to speak unintelligble gibberish, he patiently compomised some of their "bad habits", like glossolalia, eating foods sacrificed to idols, etc, to win them to the cause of Christ.

Edit: Beside all this, the glossolalia (unintelligable gibberish) of which Paul speaks has nothing in common with the tongues spoken of in Acts where the speakers are understood in various foreign languages.

 2007/6/11 15:45
lovegrace
Member



Joined: 2006/8/12
Posts: 313


 Re:

Interesting how you try to tie in the Pentacostal groups with the abominations in the book of Revelation. Very edifying. :-?

Honestly, to me. It doesn't matter what any pagan tradition did, or taught. I preach the Word of God, not some 'by-product' of a pagan tradition.

Peter, Paul, and Jesus even spoke in tongues or 'glossolalia'. If they did, why can't we?

Stop trying to find things wrong, in bizarre ways. Just preach the Word of God. Yes, it's okay to look into history, but honestly, you just took a pagan 'historical' thing and spoke against the WORD OF GOD. Watch yourself buddy. Don't call something that is Holy in the sight of God and call it unholy. Or visa versa.

Focus yourself on the face of Jesus and what He teaches clearly within His written revelation, not some pagan 'tradition'.

 2007/6/11 17:14Profile









 Re: speaking in tongues

Dear Brother Cool

"Tongues" has been discussed a lot here, even since I joined SI this year, but you deserve an answer all the same.

I can understand your feeling the whole thing was wierd, and you were put off. I was scared of this kind of thing too - the Lord had to actually ASK me if I was willling to speak in tongues if HE wanted me to. My first reaction was "no fear!"

I wonder too if what you heard [i]was[/i] genuine tongues - the real gift of the Holy Spirit - or just (subconsciously) made up mumbo jumbo? In which case no wonder you were put off!

Of course there are those on SI who believe that this gift was for the early years of the Church only, or that all of it is demonic these days. Or that the only genuine use is to speak in a known language. If you have only ever heard countrefeit, or made-up tongues, I suppose it is a reasonable conclusion. Some "tongues" really IS gibberish.

But not all!

Some also make a distinction between what happened on the Day of Pentecost and these days. There are indeed "divers kinds of tongues". as the KJV puts it, and this can be confusing.

What we need to know about is the genuine gift, not the merely human attempt to imitate it, or worse still the demonic gift, which indeed the Delphi priestesses exercised.

That is why Paul was very careful to point out the difference between the pagan, (demonic) gift and the genuine one from the Holy Spirit.

1Corinthians 12:1-3 says:
[i][color=000066]Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I do not want you to be ignorant: 2 You know that you were Gentiles, carried away to these dumb idols, however you were led. 3 Therefore I make known to you that [u]no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit[/u].[/color][/i]

Paul is warning the believers and showing them how to discern between the genuine and the demonic. "Jesus is Lord" isn't simply sayong those words, a demon can say that in a mocking way, but to say "Lord Jesus!" and mean it with all your heart can't be easily counterfeited.

Bro Corey.... I've never done this before, but it may help to demonstrate that tongues isn't gibberish: Here are some words, transliterated as well as I can. The pace, expression, intonation and inflection can't be reproduced in written words, but there are distinct words, sentences etc:

Keila mashander hamaheesta pinda palapoosa. Shesi hama hasten, haiamalata!

kesi kesi malida. Shama shamalaroda. peiashura keiahama.

Seesi mahita, sesi bakheah, papasi papa mahata.

Oh jaratirama, haimali! pepara emashane.

I can't go on, it has got me into praying in earnest, and it was impossible to write the words down for a few minutes! What is written above is part of a prayer, a passionate pleading with the Lord, that's all I know. The way the words came made that obvious. It was not made up; although there was the conscious decision to speak of course - it wasn't forced from me.

What it means is none of my business unless He wants to show it - I was talking to Him, not myself! But He gave the words so He will answer!

And probably someone, somewhere in the world would have understoood exactly what was being said!

A mystery indeed!

...I hope no-one felt I was showing off in writing these words. I have never done it before, and at one stage it would have been a sort of showing off, to prove myself instead of glorify Him. But this time it seemed right to share this, which is to some of us an ordinary (if slightly odd!) part of the Christian life. It also humbles our intellect because we don't have a clue what is being said, and our own thoughts can't interfere with the pure word spoken, as can happen with prophecy!

I haven't a clue what those words meant, and said under the breath and fast might sound like "lalala", but I do know they are of God.

Blessings

Jeannette

 2007/6/11 17:19









 Re:

lovegrace said

Quote:
Interesting how you try to tie in the Pentacostal groups with the abominations in the book of Revelation. Very edifying.



How astute.

Quote:
Honestly, to me. It doesn't matter what any pagan tradition did, or taught. I preach the Word of God, not some 'by-product' of a pagan tradition.

Peter, Paul, and Jesus even spoke in tongues or 'glossolalia'. If they did, why can't we?



Where's your evidence that Jesus, Peter, or Paul spoke in unintelligble gibberish? Scripture please.

Quote:
Stop trying to find things wrong, in bizarre ways. Just preach the Word of God. Yes, it's okay to look into history, but honestly, you just took a pagan 'historical' thing and spoke against the WORD OF GOD. Watch yourself buddy. Don't call something that is Holy in the sight of God and call it unholy. Or visa versa.



I see. No history, no science, no logic. Just scripture. Fine.

"And they had a king over them, which is the [b]angel[/b] of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon." (REV 9:11)

"Though I speak with the tongues of men and of [b]angels[/b], and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal." (I COR 13:1)

Who's language are you speaking? Who are you speaking to?

 2007/6/11 17:52





©2002-2020 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Privacy Policy