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 Re:

Quote:
Hence, I agree with Krispy that there is a big difference between teaching a false doctrine, and false christ, and teaching the right doctrine with false motives.



Amen!

 2007/6/15 15:09
coffee
Member



Joined: 2006/10/16
Posts: 80


 Re:

I found this message by Carter Conlon of Times Square Church in New York to be very informative and helpful in this area.

"The Glory Of God And The Image Of Jealousy "

Page # 8 under Carter Conlon

Your Sister in Jesus

 2007/6/15 15:15Profile









 Re:

Quote:
By making statements that simply decry her as a minister, we aren't helping to resolve the first post in this thread. The poster, a new member to the SermonIndex community, was concerned with the manner in which you had approached this subject (obviously in a previous thread). Yet there hasn't been any sort of supporting justification for the position in which we have taken.



As far as I can tell, the original poster has never bothered to respond to anything that has been said. I dont know their motive for posting what they did... but they were digging deep into the bowels of SI to turn up some things that were said months ago. This indicates to me they [b]may[/b] have been searching to be offended by what people said about their favorite teacher.

People do that, ya know.

If the poster wanted to have a rational discussion about Joyce Meyer, y'all know I would have indulged this person. But so far it's been a shotgun blast at me... and move on.

I wont respond to that by dishing up rehashed info about Joyce Meyer.

I invite this person to step up and join me in a rational, level headed discussion about Joyce Meyer and why I believe she is a false teacher. Otherwise... I dont have much more to say about it.

Krispy

 2007/6/15 15:17









 Re:

Quote:
As far as I can tell, the original poster has never bothered to respond to anything that has been said.



Dear Krispy,

You don't need to try to defend yourself, brother. I fear that in this thread you have been tempted to put off the armor of Christ's righteousness and put on your own. The question is not whether you are holding on to the right doctrine, but whether you are doing God's will in this conversation. "Knowledge puffs up, but love edifies" (1 Cor. 8:1).

In Christ,
Slavyan

 2007/6/15 15:26
psalm1
Member



Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 1230


 Re:

yup pardner we run that there carasmatic clean out of town....

 2007/6/16 16:21Profile
UniqueWebRev
Member



Joined: 2007/2/9
Posts: 640
Southern California

 Re: Joyce Meyer

Some years back, when Joyce Meyers was less well known, hadn't had a face lift, had a tacky little stage setup, and so forth, she taught some really ouchy, very spiritually compelling series on the fruits of the Spirit, on ethics, obedience, almsgiving, and a number of other very suitable topics.

And yes, being a Berean, I caught her in some errors, but not so seriously unscriptural to place her in cult status. Not being a serious devotee, I don't read her current books, but I did like 'Battlefield of the Mind'.

I'm not fond of the WoF movement, because they teach giving to get...now, and that message is far too repetitive for my taste. Putting everything into positive speech patterns hasn't transformed my life, but it hasn't hurt either. As for expecting God to do your will just because you tell Him His scriptures over and over is sliding into presumption, but I'm sure God is used to that from us humans.

But until a few years ago, Joyce was pretty much on track in other ways. She believes in zero debt, not living beyond your means, and working hard to get ahead. And for her, it has certainly worked very well. Too well, perhaps, for most people's tastes.

I don't follow her these days since I don't have time, but I do know her ministry has benefited many in world outreach and her prison ministries, which are still among her priorities, and are very effective. If Joyce can get someone started in Jesus, then as Jesus said, "Those who are not against us, are for us." Mark 9:39-40

Hopefully, they'll find they need stronger meat than Joyce, but I do know that when she tried to go deep, no one wanted it. She couldn't give her Deeper Life tape packages away without tying a lot of fluff to it.

Her family all do work for the ministry, taking care of her spinoff ministries for the mission field, for the youth, for the prisons, and I do not care to take fault with her for that. All family businesses do the same thing. As to her income, the majority of the green comes from her books, which these days are all self-help. But Joyce has written a few books that have spiritual value, so long as you read your Bible too.

Her current homes, and those of the family are new to me...I guess I'm out of touch. The last I heard, she was publishing her personal giving percentage at over 25% of whatever she makes, which is obviously considerable, and 10% of the entire ministry. And as for her putting all the cars and houses in the ministry's name, well, again, most businesses do the same. The fact they are expensive is normal for any successful businessman, using the tax laws down to the last jot and tittle. Her husband Dave, is a very good businessman. And they started off with nothing, following her call to a tape minsitry and Bible teaching on weekends for less than expense money
35 years ago. So far as I know, she's only gotten really high on the hog the last 5 years.

Strange how we judge a person without knowing them well. Those that have kept up with her, or done a lot of research, know that most of her life, her entire family lived on a shoestring basis, just like the rest of us. And those that have been very poor, when they come to be rich, sometimes live too high for our comfort.

With Joyce's background, and the financial success of the WoF preachers, one can see she may have been misled, and perhaps does mislead in some things, for she does speak in a generalized manner that is perhaps not as particular about scripture as I, or Krispy, and many others would like in her off the cuff remarks, even in her books, which she produces at an awesome rate.

These days, Joyce just seems to be re-hashing old stuff, which is a problem for preachers everywhere...they get boring and repetitive, and tell the same old stories, unless they just preach the Word! She's abrasive, and has an unpleasant voice, and yet people love her. When her show's title changed from Life in the Word to Enjoying Everyday Life, I did notice a refocusing on the pop psychology, and so forth, and hence have stopped listening. But I do know that many babe's in Christ find her enlightening.

Perhaps no popular preacher should be valued...they are too suspect. One wonders if Spurgeon in his day was criticized in the same manner, or due to preaching brilliantly and without obvious error, was also wise enough to live small, and thus escaped reproach? I doubt it. He was too brilliant not to be a subject of envy.

And for Spurgeon buffs, I am not putting Joyce Meyers into Spurgeon's class as a preacher, merely at his success level. Most well known preachers never get noticed while alive, because they live on next to nothing, and make very little noise. And overall, Chambers is a great example of a relative unknown having a very great effect due to the efforts of others getting his word out after he was with Jesus.

All in all, Paul had the best idea. Work for a living, and preach on the side. It was effective to the nth degree. If the popular preachers would take note of how little they need all that 'stuff' to be comfortable, it would help everyone downsize a bit, to at least living without credit cards, and with a generous heart towards others.

My ministry is, and I hope will remain too small, (overall cost - $40.00 per month + my free time, hence not requiring donations) to ever get me into a place where others will criticize me for being good at what I do, which is providing a little scripture with a little explanation in casual terms to people who don't like church services, but happen to like Jesus. I do hope I manage to get to a place where I end up with a "Well done, thou good and faithful servant", from Jesus. I don't have the drive these days to care for much more.

On the other hand, if God will allow me to get a book out that can make a difference to others and make me a bit of ready cash, I won't complain too much. I promise not to wear flashy earrings!

Blessings,

Forrest


_________________
Forrest Anderson

 2007/6/18 6:30Profile









 Re:

Quote:
You don't need to try to defend yourself, brother. I fear that in this thread you have been tempted to put off the armor of Christ's righteousness and put on your own. The question is not whether you are holding on to the right doctrine, but whether you are doing God's will in this conversation. "Knowledge puffs up, but love edifies" (1 Cor. 8:1).



No, I dont think I'm acting in the flesh here. Joyce Meyer has been discussed on the thread so much we could probably compile in book form. Someone comes on and takes a pot shot at me personally, taking my words out of context, etc... I'm simply not going to spend a lot of my time explaining in detail why I hold the view of her that I do. Especially since I've spelled it all out previously.

Simply put... there are other discussions here that I would rather spend my time on right now. I dont feel "led" to expend much energy on Joyce Meyer. If someone wants to know why I say what I say about her, do some homework and research it. It's all right here.

It's more of a time and energy issue than anything else. I'm sincerely not trying to be rude about it.

If this person was truly interested in picking my brain about the issue, I would have obliged them... everyone here who write me personally about doctrinal issues, or any issue for that matter, knows full well that I always respond to them. Clearly this person was not interested in anything other than taking a shot at me for saying "negative" things about their hero.

Krispy

 2007/6/18 8:46
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7534
Mississippi

 Re: Joyce Meyor

Nana,

In reading this thread, I do not see where you have replied to any responses to your original post...maybe I have missed it, but I do not think so.

Others have declared the reasons for their opposition to Ms Meyer and now I will tell you mine.

Ms Meyer has been divorced and remarried. The Scriptures tell us that whosoever marries her that is divorced commits adultery (Lk. 16:18, et al). Since she fits into that category, that would automatically identify her as an adulterer. And the Scriptures also teach us that no adulterer will enter the kingdom of heaven. (Gal. 5:19, Rom. 13:9, et al). Not my idea, but God's. So whatever else she may do whether it is good or questionable is beside the point as far as I am concerned. We can go on and argue until doomsday, if you will, about the validity of my declaration, but one thing you will not succeed in doing is changing God's mind as recorded in the WORD. It will be in our best interests to always uphold it. And if that puts us at odds with others, we should not be surprised because the devil uses other 'Christians' to get us to surrender turf that has been won by the blood of Jesus in our fight against sin as manifested by weak human flesh.

Nana, the number of false teachers out there are a dime a dozen. Actually, they are likely more plentiful then godly ones.

This is my understanding of the Word of God and how I apply it to myself, and others including ministries.

I hope you will reconsider why people do cry the alarm when they see false teachers being supported by God's people. If God's people support false teachers, it seems to me they're pardnering with the Enemy, even though it appears innocent. Read Ephesians 5:11.

Nana, have you ever been duped by a false teacher? I have. And when I became aware of this I felt so ashamed, so mortified, so appalled and was aghast that no one even warned me! So you see, some of us have been there and done that: that is why we are so stubborn in our stance against false teachers!

Blessings,
ginnyrose

PS: I am not interested in getting into the divorce/remarriage debate: this has been discussed elsewhere on this forum.....I just shared my conviction here on this post.


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2007/6/18 9:02Profile
CYH717
Member



Joined: 2007/6/14
Posts: 8
Pennsylvania

 Re:

Thanks Forrest, that was a pretty good read.

One of the main reasons that my husband doesn't like Meyer is because of her abrasiveness. That's just the start.

I listened to Joyce because she sounded like my Dad, straight & to-the-point. I don't listen to her anymore because I've out-grown her in my walk with the Lord.

But there is no preacher who is going to sway me away from keeping Jesus Christ #1 in my life. All the Spurgeon's & D.L. Moodys & Tozers & others are not going to get that #1 spot.
All men/women are fallible.

God knows Meyers heart; now in the present, and in the future.

There is a way to correct a person who is following false doctrines, and that is in love through Jesus Christ. If that person isn't willing to listen, our greatest weapon is prayer.

It's so easy to fall into this kind of temptation where we believe we're defending our Lord, but really, we're tearing down another person that He created. He created them for a purpose, too.

It's hard, for me, to remember that it is the Holy Spirit who does the work in man's heart and not me.
(I ask forgiveness for that a lot in my marriage). :-(

It's important to remember the battle is a Spiritual one...it's unseen. If God chooses to keep one person's eyes shut for a season, yet He opens another's eyes to the same thing...we can trust that He knows what He's doing. We need Him to guide us in what we're supposed to do (& not do) while we are in wait for that person.

I don't know too much, I'm learning, but I do know that Love & Prayer are two important things of the Bible.


_________________
Carla

 2007/6/18 9:12Profile









 Re:

I will add many scripture references when challenged to do so (though as krispy has stated, this already exists and can be searched for here on si), but would just like to make one comment now. The "gospel" that this women preaches is straight from hell and is leading many into a relationship with a false jesus and ultimately to eternal damnation. Run for your life from the teachings of this woman.

In Christ - Jim

 2007/6/18 13:34





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