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 Re:

Quote:
I don't know how to say it...but a lot of these comments just leave a bad taste in my mouth.



Brother, I think I've had a similar experience, of things people say leaving a bad taste in my mouth. I remember threads that have, perhaps last year, made me feel this way, to the point that I started doubting everything, even the truth of the Gospel of my Lord. This was a horrible place to find myself in. And I didn't even know why all this happened... Wasn't I supposed to have the peace of Christ in me, the peace that no one can take away, which is not like the peace of the world? Why did then I feel so discouraged?

In His mercy, however, The Lord showed me that the tension I felt at those times were actually the birthing pains of Christ in me, of the death of my natural man. They were good, albeit painful. For the natural man in me wants to have everything figured out and win debates once and for all with swinging, short, indisputable statements, and not feel the least anxiety or loss. He gets offended if things do not go his way--even for the sake of right doctrine. And I commit to you, brother, that the root of all this bitterness is OUR SELFISHNESS. The old man must be crucified and found in Christ without any sufficiency of his own, even as pertains to anything... our wisdom, our sanctification, our redemption are in Christ; not in the false assurance of the doctrines we have compiled through collating Scriptures and examining arguments of men. This is the only way out of feeling this way. For the Spirit truly gives us freedom, when we have the mind of Christ; and all those arguments here and there about this Scripture or this genealogy lose their power to hurt and divide us.

I encourage you, brother (or sister--I don't know), to seek the Lord on this matter and ask the Holy Spirit to search you, to the best of your ability, and show you the truth. Trust this: neither mine, nor any man's opinion will suffice, but only the testimony of the Holy Spirit communicating to your spirit. He IS the Comforter, the Spirit of Truth.

In Christ,
Slavyan

[EDIT: I listened again to "Ten Shekels and Shirt" by Paris Reidhead recently. What a sermon!! The Lord broke and shoved me into the ground... showed me myself in the mirror and I couldn't but cry out like Peter and bow down, "Depart from me, Lord, for I am a sinful man!" (after the great catch of fish). I praise Him for since the first time I listened to this sermon in December 2005, the message is even more convicting... and I thought I was "doing pretty good" in my Christian walk... until the Lord said, "there is nothing good in the flesh" ... NOTHING. I encourage you all if you have the chance to listen to Ten Shekels. Our God is so gracious!]

 2007/6/13 17:57









 Re:

The deception that false teachers such as Joyce Meyer have wrought on the church is what leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

Krispy

 2007/6/15 7:44
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7464
Mississippi

 Re:

Sentry wrote:

Quote:
I'm not particular fond of her...and I'm NOT for the Word of Faith teachings...BUT...

I don't know how to say it...but a lot of these comments just leave a bad taste in my mouth.

For what it's worth, I know of someone that was in prison, who was very much touched by her prison ministry.



Consider the Apostle Paul as recorded in Phil.3:15-17:It is true that some preach Christ out of envy and rivalry, but others out of goodwill. 16 The latter do so in love, knowing that I am put here for the defense of the gospel. 17 The former preach Christ out of selfish ambition, not sincerely, supposing that they can stir up trouble for me while I am in chains. 18But what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached. And because of this I rejoice. (NASB)

Perhaps one of the strangest things is that a person can come to the LORD through the ministry of a false teacher. For example, David Bercot testifies how he came to the LORD while a JW! One thing I must realize it is the Holy Spirit that convicts, using whatever is at hand to bring this about, even if it is contentious teachers.

My understanding of this issue...

ginnyrose


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2007/6/15 9:18Profile









 Re:

Phil.3:15-17 isnt addressing those who teach false doctrine, or a false Christ... which Joyce Meyer does. Phil.3:15-17 is addressing those who preach the truth with the wrong motives.

There is a difference.

Paul had much to say about false teachers. In the scripture you quoted he was indicating that he would not stop someone from preaching the truth for the wrong reasons. But elsewhere he was vehemently opposed to teachers of false doctrines, and exhorts us to mark and [b]avoid[/b] them.

Krispy

 2007/6/15 9:25
lastblast
Member



Joined: 2004/10/16
Posts: 528
Michigan

 Re:

Quote:
Perhaps one of the strangest things is that a person can come to the LORD through the ministry of a false teacher. For example, David Bercot testifies how he came to the LORD while a JW! One thing I must realize it is the Holy Spirit that convicts, using whatever is at hand to bring this about, even if it is contentious teachers.



This is my understanding as well, Ginny. The Word of God does NOT return Void.......it is His Word that brings forth salvation, not the worker.......the "worker" is merely the vessel the Lord allows to be used for HIS purposes. Blessings, sister.


_________________
Cindy

 2007/6/15 12:01Profile
lejfricke
Member



Joined: 2007/4/17
Posts: 15
Chantilly, Virginia

 Re:

Without regard to Meyer (or anyone else), even though the Word does not return void, shouldn't we be mindful of how we conduct ourselves? Though we don't control the supernatural, won't we be held accountable for our actions? Also, in Proverbs, aren't those who know the truth, yet see brothers and sisters 'being led as lambs to the slaughter' (in other words, led to confusion by lack of their own education in the Word) obligated to speak up?

just a couple of questions...
Leigh


_________________
Leigh

 2007/6/15 12:23Profile
ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4499


 Re:

Hello...

While I have already mentioned that I am not a fan of Joyce Meyer (simply because I don't agree with some of the things she said in the few times I have ever read her writings), this conversation might become a little more productive if the individuals labeling her as a "false teacher" might give examples as such.

The doctrinal beliefs that she seems to espouse are certainly a part of the "prosperity" domain. According to some articles, Meyers has a high-on-the-hog lifestyle (million dollar homes, lavish lifestyle and many bills paid for by her "ministry"), yet she still preaches about God helping individuals in difficult circumstances. It makes me wonder how an individual can stand up and proclaim such things while the "ministry" supports the excesses of her life?

Anyway, the criticism that I feel is not directed at Joyce Meyer, but at all individuals and ministers who adhere to the modern "prosperity" message. I consider such a message to be quite "cultish." It's not that I feel that individuals who believe it are "unbelievers" -- but that they are believing something that might be based upon the sin of coveting. Instead of promoting contentment, it exalts fleshly desires.

Anyway, I know little about Ms. Meyer from a firsthand basis. However, the little that I do know raises questions -- not from a depiction of her heart or relationship with God -- but about the validity of her messages and ability to proclaim her familiarity with "hurting" or "needy" individuals.

:-)


_________________
Christopher

 2007/6/15 12:44Profile









 Re:

Quote:
this conversation might become a little more productive if the individuals labeling her as a "false teacher" might give examples as such.



I would agree with you if there wasnt already plenty of evidence previously posted in this forum. All anyone has to do is take a few minutes and search for it. It is redundant to post it all over again.

The people (not meaning you) who demand evidence generally dont want to bother to do the research many of us have done. They demand people like me give it to them... when it's already been done. I dont see the need to keep repeating it over and over and over and over again everytime someone new shows up and demands evidence.

Search for it. It's all here. How about someone else doing a little homework. Joyce is the one who needs to defend her position, not me mine.

Krispy

 2007/6/15 13:18
ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4499


 Re:

Hi Krispy...

Quote:

KrispyKrittr wrote:

I would agree with you if there wasnt already plenty of evidence previously posted in this forum. All anyone has to do is take a few minutes and search for it. It is redundant to post it all over again.

The people (not meaning you) who demand evidence generally dont want to bother to do the research many of us have done. They demand people like me give it to them... when it's already been done. I dont see the need to keep repeating it over and over and over and over again everytime someone new shows up and demands evidence.

Search for it. It's all here. How about someone else doing a little homework. Joyce is the one who needs to defend her position, not me mine.

By making statements that simply decry her as a minister, we aren't helping to resolve the first post in this thread. The poster, a new member to the SermonIndex community, was concerned with the manner in which you had approached this subject (obviously in a previous thread). Yet there hasn't been any sort of supporting justification for the position in which we have taken.

Perhaps this thread would have been more useful to the initial poster if we could have, using tact, provided clarity for the determination of our position. I used the search feature to find some of the discussions about Ms. Meyer, but this sort of "research" yielded massive results. Regardless, it didn't really provide the initial poster with a rationale for our own perspective.

It might be helpful to not only explain what causes personal apprehension to Joyce Meyer's "ministry," but to point such a believer to something much better.

:-)


_________________
Christopher

 2007/6/15 13:36Profile









 Re:

Quote:
Perhaps one of the strangest things is that a person can come to the LORD through the ministry of a false teacher. For example, David Bercot testifies how he came to the LORD while a JW!



Sister Ginny,

After I came to the Lord I first attended a prosperity-gospel church for a while. I was "fed" there. And although I was "brought to Christ," it wasn't the same Lord that I now know--he was a christ only in word, and although the Bible was used, it was used for the glory and purposes of men. Hence, this ministry did much damage to me early in my walk as a believer--all the false doctrine that I was brought up in and the manipulation, the tares of which I had to uproot for a long time. And I could have easily have submitted to the authority of the pastors, like others did, but thank my God that He had mercy on me and led me away providentially, never to return to that place to this day. Truly, I didn't come to the Lord through the preaching of those false teachers... the person who led me to Christ earlier, although I've never met him since, was I believe a Spirit-filled man. Don't be deceived, brethren, only the TRUTH can set us free! "What fellowship can light have with darkness?" (1 Cor. 6:14)

Hence, I agree with Krispy that there is a big difference between teaching a false doctrine, and false christ, and teaching the right doctrine with false motives.

[u]2 Corinthians 4:2[/u]
"Rather, we have renounced secret and shameful ways; we do not use deception, nor do we distort the word of God. On the contrary, by setting forth the truth plainly we commend ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God."

 2007/6/15 15:05





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