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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Are Women Totally Forbidden to Teach?

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 Re:

Hi Dorcas, it's all but impossible to interpret Greek words with the English dictionary.

"ai" is a diphthong in most cases.

This word comes from just a letter "a" - alpha and ειδω.
The definition of ειδω is "a primary verb; used only in certain past tenses, the others being borrowed from the equivalent, G3700 and G3708; properly "to see" (literally or figuratively); by implication (in the perfect only) to know: - be aware, behold, X can (+ not tell), consider, (have) known (-ledge), look (on), perceive, see, be sure, tell, understand, wist, wot. Compare G3700."

Ha, you got me laughing at the bottom of your post.

"... an physical practice of looking down [i]all the time[/i] in 'church' ..."

I can just picture me doing that at my Church.
What a scene that would cause. Ha.

Of course it is an "attitude of heart" as those guys up top there defined it as such.

Thanks for the laugh. They'd all be asking me at Church if I were depressed or sick or who knows what would happen, besides me hitting walls again.

Take care.

 2007/7/6 20:16
UniqueWebRev
Member



Joined: 2007/2/9
Posts: 640
Southern California

 Re: A Woman Speaking Under Authority

"Besides, it's darned hard to teach anything to anyone without looking people in the eye!

And yes, I said teach...but I will admit it is outside the Church that I do it," she said with a twinkle in her eyes.

Blessings,

Forrest


_________________
Forrest Anderson

 2007/7/7 5:42Profile









 Re:

1 Tim 2:11-15
11 A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent.
Teach----- NT:831authenteo (ow-then-teh'-o); from a compound of NT:846 and an obsolete hentes (a worker); to act of oneself, i.e. (figuratively) dominate: KJV - usurp authority over.
(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright (c) 1994, Biblesoft and International Bible Translators, Inc.)



The Apostle Paul wasn’t the only one that touched on church authority and Christ being the supreme authority and Elders and Deacons being subject to HIS authority and what does the word say that was to be the gender of them. I read much in the re’s about spiritual discernment and definitions, but never saw a Hebrew breakdown to change the meaning of the verses. Yes I know sometimes the Hebrew meanings can be quiet different than it appears. But you see the definition above. If we can spiritual discern a different meaning of what the word is and change what it when it says “do not and permit to have authority”. Just imagine how we could write our own version of the Bible; which is done quiet frequently. Personally I think women are great. I think God loves them equally to men. I would not have a problem with women teaching men if that was what the Bible said.

Women are very important to the Kingdom of God. Just as important to the Kingdom as a man is. I would hate to think where the church would be today if it weren’t for Godly women. As I study I do go regularly to check out the Greek and Hebrew definitions to get the full meaning. But I will not and I can’t see where one could, should or would get a spiritual discernment from God to counter and mean the opposite of what the scripture says.

If we can't arrive at what the defintiion is "is" we won't get very far.


1 Tim 2:11-15
11 A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. 15 But women will be saved through childbearing-if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.
(from New International Version)



13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. 15 But women will be saved through childbearing-if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.






The question is not are women allowed to teach men but are they instructed to teach men in the scriptural passages. All women are as important as man are to the Kingdom of God.
Titus 2:1-5
2:1 But speak thou the things which become sound doctrine:2 That the aged men be sober, grave, temperate, sound in faith, in charity, in patience.3 The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things;4 That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children,5 To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.


Our Savior came from an earthly women minus the seed of an earthly man but came when she was overshadowed by the Holy Spirit.
A woman was used as a messenger to tell the 12 men disciples he had risen.

Mark 16:6-7
6 And he saith unto them, Be not affrighted: Ye seek Jesus of Nazareth, which was crucified: he is risen; he is not here: behold the place where they laid him.
7 But go your way, tell his disciples and Peter that he goeth before you into Galilee: there shall ye see him, as he said unto you.
KJV

The Apostle Paul covered that subject of women in the church, women teaching who in the church, and a women's role in marriage as did he also cover the man's role. Quiet frequently he spoke under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit if you believe all scripture is God breathed. Peter under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit confirmed Paul's letters in on that subject and others that were written to the church. Now would you say they were they only written to those churches or all churches?
2 Peter 3:15-18
15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.

Are we honoring God's authority in the church in everything we do is the question? Are we worried more about our authority than his and what he has given to men. Is what we want to do on this subject and others than what his written his written word says?

This subject is not about salvation.
Eph 2:8-10

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

How do we do good works. Only by doing what he said in his word. We can't do that unless we are impowered and indwelled with His Spirit.
We honor Him by respecting His authority and the authority he gave to the church or the body of Christ and by lining up with His Word. The authority given to the Pastors, Elders and Deacons by the supreme authority Jesus Christ will give an account for all things allowed in the church. We will all give an account for what we have done and not done. For every idle word.

We all have many different opinions on the scriptures. His opinion triumps all opinions. If I or anyone else has a special revelation or let me say it this way if I have a special revelation that is not plain in the scriptures I would want to be certain it was a special revelation and indeed came from the Lord.

If these scriptures about women in the church was only to the unruly women at the time Paul spoke. Did he say "time out" let me say this and I will continue write under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit? And if that is the case then could we say other things such as Pastors earning there living preaching the Word was only for then and is not relevant today?

I have listened to some very talented, well presented female speakers addressing a multigender group. Women are much better than men in many areas including multi-tasking.

I believe the key to revival anywhere is dying to ourselves and our ways and the way we want to do it and lining up with his authority in the church, on the job and in the home.

Prov 3:3-7
3 Let not mercy and truth forsake thee: bind them about thy neck; write them upon the table of thine heart:
4 So shalt thou find favour and good understanding in the sight of God and man.
5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.
7 Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the LORD, and depart from evil.
KJV

We can't acknowledge Him any better way than obedience to His Word.

 2007/7/11 17:29









 Re: Book ~

Strongly recommending a book entitled, "Confronting Jezebel" by Steve Sampson

This book is both for and about women & men.

Nuf said, but it's very-very good!


Love!

Annie

 2007/7/18 14:52









 Re:

I'll attempt to shed more light. I welcome any valid argument on this. And I realize anyone has the freedom to disagree. But I didn't write it.

In most Baptist churches women are not allowed to be a Pastor. I ask my Pastor not long ago, who is a Baptist Pastor "what scripture was used to exclude women from the pulpit"? He did not give an answer. He says all the other scriptures related to women not teaching men and relating to not having authority in the church was just in the Apostle Paul's day. He had a bunch of unruly women. He said that it did not really apply to anything but the pulpit but did not give me the scripture reference of the exclusion from the pulpit. Again did Paul take a time out from writing under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit and then continue when he finished talking about women. One reference given on re: on this post was given to justify women teaching me.
Let us see where it takes us.

Gal 3:28-29
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
KJV

If this is a valid argument then you have then justified homosexual marriage or at least given ammunition for the homosexual to sin and it not be called sin.

Each time we don't take God's Word as it says we tangle a web and that is truly when the debate begins. It is not about us and our authority. It is about HIS authority.

Again women are a God sent. A wonderful creation. Just as important to the Kingdom as a man. Most women probably more faithful to the Lord and HIS church the last 50 years as a whole than most men.

Paul wasn't well liked by many people and no one posted in their comments if they thought this was a reason why he wasn't or if it had anything to do with his non-popularity and his persecution.

 2007/7/18 16:35









 Re: Book ~

Quote:
[b]by GrannieAnnie on 2007/7/18 14:52:19

Strongly recommending a book entitled, "Confronting Jezebel" by Steve Sampson

This book is both for and about women & men.

Nuf said, but it's very-very good!


Love!

Annie[/b]




Hia ~ Not trying to start the discussion over again....


This book was just read to me today over the phone, long-distance - ha.

Actually, that's true and I could not believe how On Target it is for "today".

It's about men or women that have a sort of last days spirit and it's like, last days ammo for it.

It's a major heads-upper and describes a personality type that I can't get into because then y'all won't look for the book :-D .

Seriously ~~~~ YA GOTTA FIND THIS BOOK !

Heavy duty and down-right good and insightful and enlightening and right-on target and educating and illuminating and equipping and pretty neat too, in a spooky sorta way. Hey, what else can I say ...


Truly is an eye-opener.


Boing ! :-? !

 2007/7/18 18:53
reformer
Member



Joined: 2007/6/25
Posts: 764


 Re:

I don't think woman are forbidden to teach, I don't think they should be pastors and teach men.

But if it wasn't for the ladies in church, most things would not get done. Sadly, woman have taken the leadership role in many churches, because men are lazy and will not stand as leaders.

When Paul and Timothy went on their way to Macedonia, they ran into woman outside the city gate praying and they assemble with them. ACt 16:11-13

Where were the men? If it wasn't for godly woman praying, who would be praying. The point is we as men better step up.

 2007/7/28 12:28Profile









 Re:

Hi reformer, I think the sole problem in The Church is walking autonomous from HIS Spirit, as we've been commanded to do, and not according to our own thoughts.
If all would do this, than each gender would be compliant to His Word that is only found in His Spirit of Truth. You cannot "walk in the Spirit and go against His Word, which would be gratifying the flesh, even in ways that don't seem sinful, but are not from HIM at that moment.

Still strongly recommending a book entitled, "Confronting Jezebel" by Steve Sampson.

It talks about much more than what the title may imply.

It urgent now that we be dependent on Him for all wisdom and instruction, because we'll sink for sure without leaning like a child on Him now and from NOW ON.

LORD help us all at this time. Thank you.

 2007/7/28 12:58





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