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Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3707
Ca.

 Re:

Who is the head of a woman in the flesh?
Who is the head of a woman in the Spirit?
Even the Head of a Man is Christ and the Head of the woman is man. Does that not make the head of all Christ? Christ would not be a man, if woman had not birthed Him by God's Seed. Unless God made a man to have offspring in themselves.
Which He, God, chose not to do. A woman is a weaker vessel physically, but not spiritually. Christ is the power of the Spiritual. Is the power of Christ any different spiritually in a man or woman? We are all baptized into the same Body by One Spirit.

Rom 2:29 But he [is] a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision [is that] of the heart, in the spirit, [and] not in the letter; whose praise [is] not of men, but of God.

Is a woman in her heart circumcised. What?!!

Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his

Romans 8:10-11 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

If the Spirit of Christ dwelleth in you, you are His and who is the Head? I think headship goes out the door when it comes to being in Christ. The woman or man is no longer under any headship except Christ. If a man exercises the Headship of Christ to the woman, who is her head the man or Christ? If a woman under the headship of Christ exercises the headship of Christ who the headship she is under? It is Christ, that is why there is no male or female in Christ, no bond or free, no Jew or Gentile. Christ's headship in a woman is not going to lord it over the man and the same goes for the man over the woman.

Rom 2:29 But he [is] a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision [is that] of the heart, in the spirit, [and] not in the letter; whose praise [is] not of men, but of God.

Ladies, your praise is of God, not man.

Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of

"any man" does not mean just man but also it means woman or whosoever.

Gal 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

Gal 5:16 [This] I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

Gal 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit

That the Spirit of Christ in us will fulfill the perfect work that was intended before the foundation of the world, be it man or woman, perfect in Christ.

Ephesians 1:3-23 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace; Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence; Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory. Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints, Cease not to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers; That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him: The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints, And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power, Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come: And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

Does this sound like we must keep woman from teaching when He is the fulness that fulfills all in all.

In Christ, In Christ, In Christ, He is the head over all that all might be presented perfect in Christ Jesus.

Colossians 1:25-29 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily. Again: "every man;" all mankind.

That includes the Ladies also. No subordinate here except to Christ. Amen.

Rom 8:17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with [him], that we may be also glorified together

1Pe 3:7 Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with [them] according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered.

Giving honour unto the wife. It was an important advance made in society when the Christian religion gave such a direction as this, for everywhere among the heathen, and under all false systems of religion, woman has been regarded as worthy of little honour or respect. She has been considered as a slave, or as a mere instrument to gratify the passions of man. It is one of the elementary doctrines of Christianity, however, that woman is to be treated with respect; and one of the first and most marked effects of religion on society is to elevate the wife to a condition in which she will be worthy of esteem. The particular reasons for the honour which husbands are directed to show to their wives, here specified, are two: she is to be treated with special kindness as being more feeble than man, and as having a claim therefore to delicate attention; and she is to be honoured as the equal heir of the grace of life.

The weaker vessel only means the "Wife contributing to the usefulness of the Husband".
In Christ they can teach man much. Not lord it over the husband because they have more honor.

Teach Man, A Christ Woman, absolutely.

In Christ: Phillip



_________________
Phillip

 2007/6/5 1:29Profile
wallbuilder
Member



Joined: 2007/2/15
Posts: 44


 Re:

Obviously this issue can be controversial in the Body of Christ. Yes, Scripture is always the final authority for any practice in the church.

It's always a matter of interpretation. To imply that the many women of God I have already mentioned were/are in direct disobedience to Scripture is absurd. Is Ruth Graham Lotz (Billy Graham's daughter) disobedient to Scripture? She teaches/preaches at conferences all over this country, calling people back to Jesus in repentance and humility.

Rhonda Hughey, from IHOP in Kansas City has similar conferences all over this nation. Her ministry is called Fusion Ministries-and she, along with other male teachers confront and challenge the church today (as does this site) to return to holiness and repentance and prayer, and frankly is having results of a genuine move of the Holy Spirit all over this nation. Is her ministry in rebellion, and un Scriptural?

The entire issue, speaking as a woman of God myself, and called into ministry, is over the phrase, shall not teach or have authority "over a man". These women I've mentioned are under the authority of a man. They are flowing in their gifts/callings-and are under the authority of male leadership.

And the men they are under have the wisdom and fear of God enough in them to release these women to minister to a lost and hurting church and world. The men are not threatened by these women, nor are they ignorant of Scripture.

Deborah, Priscilla (mentioned first in Scripture) and Aquila, who taught, yes, taught Apollos. The apostle Junias, Phoebe, the deacon, yes, the leader in the church, whom Paul commended. Need I go on?

All these Biblical women were under male authority and were released to operate in their callings by the wise men around them, whom they were under.

How dare we hinder the Lord from reaching this sin sick world, because the person happens to be a woman. And what a loss to the body of Christ for depriving us of all the gifts/callings locked up in the female population today because of this issue.

Many of the disputable Scriptures completely have a cultural context. Paul is not speaking of all women needing to remain silent in the church, he is speaking of a specific situation where the women were speaking out loud, and out of turn during worship services. But elsewhere in Scripture, there were women who prophecied "out loud" during worship services.

The issue is one of authority. Women do have authority, as did Eve who shared it with Adam. The original charge to have dominion over the earth was to both of them , not only to Adam. Her position of authority was, yes, under the headship of Adam, but she was not excluded from the same charge.

It's the same thing today. She has authority, and also a responsiblity to share in the great commission and to operate in the fullness of her giftings/callings.

Most women shy away from this whole thing and sit locked up afraid to move or say anything for fear of men who take Scriptures about this way too literally.

Why not rather BE the men that will be the authorities over some genuinely called women and see how God will grow his kingdom through them.

I really do honestly appreciate this web site. I love and need the messages brought forth here by the men and the women who's sermons you offer to grow and challenge us.

Thank you-I know this was long.

 2007/6/5 13:42Profile
Psalm73
Member



Joined: 2007/2/15
Posts: 60
Arkansas

 Paul wants to give a woman honour for

Simply as the scripture states when it's obviously not in any simple symbolic way. I suffer not a woman to teach, neither to have autority over the man.
Let's look in, and see that ye take not this light for darcknesse, what does I cor 10:34 K.J state? Hmm, say auctoritie
First we have to defend the Grahams and Meyers and say that they seem to preach on love and meddle it with wordlyisms, and to the table of devills full of newspaper idols.
God's table full of herbs and meats dedicat to the Lord, on Baal's table, thinges that make proud stomackes and their excess food, wine and their offering herb to images.
1 Cor 8:4 ¶ To speak of meat dedicat unto idols, we are sure that there is none idol in the world: and that there is none other god but one.
5 And though there be that are called goddes, whether in heaven or in earth (as there be goddes many and lords many)
6 but unto us is there one god, which is the father, of whom are all things, and we in him: and one Lord Iesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

Suche topics as a woman's subjeccion to CHrist and her housbande can really cause a man to miss the marcke and cause him to make frettings over yvell doers. SO Christ Iesus doesnot stay on the cross, yet we bear it dayly.
Hebrews 7:26 Such an high priest it becommeth us to have, which is wholy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher then heaven.
27 Which needeth not daily (as yonder high priests) to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people’s sins. For that did he at once for all, when he offered up himself:
28 For the law maketh men priests, which have infirmity: but the word of the oath that came since the law, maketh the son priest, which is perfect for evermore.

Once you open your eyes deception and boldness don't go together

Tarry Merritt


_________________
Terry L Merritt

 2007/6/5 15:45Profile









 Re:

Hi wallbuilder, Happy to have you have here and that you've found the site to be chock full of wonderful materials to be fed from. Amen.

We could go around & around all day with this, but I'm afraid it would cause nothing but hurt feelings and discord.
The keeping silent part 'was' because there was abuse of the woman's new found freedom in the Church, where they would ask their husbands during the meeting, what's this or that.
But the Imperitive was that one verse we've discussed.
At times Paul would say, "this ones from me" and most times of course, his words were direct authority given him to set up the ordinances of The Church.

1Ti 2:12 γυναικι (Woman)1135 N-DSF δε (now)1161 CONJ διδασκειν ( Teach)1321 V-PAN ουκ (not, never, nay, nothing, none, neither, cannot, no) [b]3756[/b] PRT-N επιτρεπω (allow) 2010 V-PAI-1S ουδε ([u]neither,nor[/u]) 3761 ADV αυθεντειν (to act of oneself, that is, (figuratively) dominate: - usurp authority over. ) 831 V-PAN ανδρος ( fellow, husband, man, sir) 435 N-GSM αλλ (no) 235 CONJ ειναι (there is to be)1511 V-PXN εν (in)1722 PREP ησυχια (stillness, that is, desistance from bustle or language: - quietness, silence. )2271 N-DSF

1Ti 2:12 -
I permit not (ouk epitrepō). Old word epitrepō, to permit, to allow (1Co_16:7). Paul speaks authoritatively.
To teach (didaskein). In the public meeting clearly. And yet all modern Christians allow women to teach Sunday school classes. One feels somehow that something is not expressed here to make it all clear.
Nor to have dominion over a man (oude authentein andros). The word authenteō is now cleared up by Kretschmer (Glotta, 1912, pp. 289ff.) and by Moulton and Milligan’s Vocabulary. See also Nageli, Der Wortschatz des Apostels Paulus and Deissmann, Light, etc., pp. 88f. Autodikeō was the literary word for playing the master while authenteō was the vernacular term. It comes from auṫhentes, a self-doer, a master, autocrat. It occurs in the papyri (substantive authentēs, master, verb authenteō, to domineer, adjective authentikos, authoritative, “authentic”). Modern Greek has aphentes = Effendi = “Mark.” Robertson's.

Deborah the prophetess/judge told Barak, "Did not the Lord say go ?" (Speaking as a Prophetess here - saying "didn't The Lord Say" - Yet Barak said, I ain't going without ya ! So she said, "I will surely go with thee: notwithstanding the journey that thou takest shall not be for thine honor; for the LORD shall sell Sisera into the hand of a woman. And Deborah arose, and went with Barak to Kedesh."

And can't find Piscilla teaching any where, just helping out with her husband.

I believe a prophetess, etc. of woman can be used in Church, but everything must be "in order" and under the authority/overseeing of men. Not run rough-shod, or as the definition above said "to act of oneself".

Woman are under men, authority wise, and Paul went on to explain "why" he didn't allow woman to teach & usurp authority, because of Eve.

He told Eve and ever since that they/we would be under our husbands authority ... or if single - a father, Pastor, brother, whomever.

If woman in Authority over men was in the Word - it wouldn't say just the opposite in so many places.

Isa 3:12 As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths.

I see woman like Anne-Graham Lotz or Elizabeth Elliott as woman who wrote books and spoke, but it was optional for men to read them or be there.

If anyone here's Pastor announced he was leaving their Church next Sunday but a Mrs. Hagabash will be their new Pastor henceforth, I wonder how they'd feel about that.

I know some denominations would allow it ... but I don't think on a Forum or elsewhere, that we should get angry with each other for not agreeing on this.

We just give our view of what the Word says. I don't like using anything else but The Word as proof of why I believe as I do. I only gave Elizabeth Elliott all along because I heard her teach on this and it was an outstanding teaching from The Word.

Thank you also wallbuilder. Ha - Mine turned out long too and I didn't intend it to.

I won't bother this subject again.

God Bless you.
Annie

 2007/6/5 15:58
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: Role call

Hello sister,

Quote:
The entire issue, speaking as a woman of God myself, and called into ministry, is over the phrase, shall not teach or have authority "over a man".



Mathew Henry on this verse;

[i]2:8-15 Under the gospel, prayer is not to be confined to any one particular house of prayer, but men must pray every where. We must pray in our closets, pray in our families, pray at our meals, pray when we are on journeys, and pray in the solemn assemblies, whether more public or private. We must pray in charity; without wrath, or malice, or anger at any person. We must pray in faith, without doubting, and without disputing. Women who profess the Christian religion, must be modest in apparel, not affecting gaudiness, gaiety, or costliness. Good works are the best ornament; these are, in the sight of God, of great price. Modesty and neatness are more to be consulted in garments than elegance and fashion. And it would be well if the professors of serious godliness were wholly free from vanity in dress. They should spend more time and money in relieving the sick and distressed, than in decorating themselves and their children. To do this in a manner unsuitable to their rank in life, and their profession of godliness, is sinful. These are not trifles, but Divine commands. The best ornaments for professors of godliness, are good works. According to St. Paul, women are not allowed to be public teachers in the church; for teaching is an office of authority. But good women may and ought to teach their children at home the principles of true religion. Also, women must not think themselves excused from learning what is necessary to salvation, though they must not usurp authority. As woman was last in the creation, which is one reason for her subjection, so she was first in the transgression. But there is a word of comfort; that those who continue in sobriety, shall be saved in child-bearing, or with child-bearing, by the Messiah, who was born of a woman. And the especial sorrow to which the female sex is subject, should cause men to exercise their authority with much gentleness, tenderness, and affection.[/i]

Context is critical to what Paul was speaking and collectively it is understood to be in the Church. I am sorry but you are making a pragmatism against the ideal, which is namely one of [i]order[/i]. The problem is when we want to make this into that which is constituted as oneupmanship either way, the man under his given order or 'orders' and the woman the same.

Quote:
To imply that the many women of God I have already mentioned were/are in direct disobedience to Scripture is absurd. Is Ruth Graham Lotz (Billy Graham's daughter) disobedient to Scripture? She teaches/preaches at conferences all over this country, calling people back to Jesus in repentance and humility.

It is only if you make it so. Some of the ones you mentioned earlier, Joyce Meyers, Hickey would be in direct violation of scripture because they are leading churches as 'pastors' or 'ministers'. They is no getting around it. I sat under a great deal of Joyce Meyers through the years and know a quite a bit about her teaching and ministry but it is still a pragmatism that says that this is an okay thing to do, [i]we[/i] have decided it is so because of 'results' or even better if they preach along the lines we would wish they would, holiness and repentance, sin ... it still does not correct the error, that is what we must face here. It is not an attack on anyones character it is to note that they are 'out of line', the lines that God has drawn. As a side note, Hickey is one that I would flee as far from as possible and shouldn't be in any capacity teaching anything.

I think you are reasoning from the wrong lines here sister, there is a great deal spoken to this as was mentioned earlier, will dig up the link later, I would hate for you to get the wrong idea here. There is a great appreciation and understanding of womans roles in Gods kingdom and many sisters here who have tremendous insight and understanding that share with us.


_________________
Mike Balog

 2007/6/5 16:08Profile









 Re:

Quote:
My understanding of this whole issue is 'simply' one of order, that which has been established by the Lord.



This is the key, right here, Mike. Thats my take on it. It has nothing to do with any particular woman's ability to teach... it has to do with order. God's order.

Wallbuilder... you cite that church history needs to be taken into consideration along with scripture. That sends chills up my spine because that is an incredibly Catholic notion. The Catholic Church puts forth that we can not accept scripture alone, we must also balance it with (Catholic) church history... and most of the time history trumps scripture in the RCC.

It may not be what you [i]mean[/i], but it surely implies that scripture is not enough.

I say it is the [b]final[/b] authority. The church may have a tradition it's held to for 1,999 years... but it scripture says that tradition is wrong... I'm going with scripture.

Quote:
Deborah, Priscilla (mentioned first in Scripture) and Aquila, who taught, yes, taught Apollos. The apostle Junias, Phoebe, the deacon, yes, the leader in the church, whom Paul commended. Need I go on?



These women were not elder/pastors. You are comparing apples to oranges. Not one of these women were ever mentioned as pastors. Nor does it ever mention anything about them teaching "in the church". One was mentioned as having a church meeting in her home... but there is a big difference between meeting in someone's home, and that someone being the pastor. Sometimes our church meets in the home of a single woman... that doesnt make her a pastor... it makes her a hostess.

We need to be careful not to make leaps when we read scripture. There is a lot of assuming going on. I've heard these same arguments from Joyce Meyer. The way she handles scripture is one scarey thing.

Scripture needs to be taken at face value, and we need to practice good exegesis. Scripture interprets scripture. Paul says what he says about not allowing women to teach in the church... he gives descriptive guidelines for qualifications for elders and bishops... and then later on we see a woman had a church meeting in her home, and we assume that means she is the pastor?? How do we make that leap when there is no indication of this in scripture? It totally contradicts what Paul taught!

So then, we must come to one of three conclusions... 1) scripture is not reliable because right here it contradicts itself... 2) the things Paul wrote were not inspired by the Holy Spirit and therefore is not scripture... 3) or... the woman hosted a church in her home, but was not the pastor.

#3 is the only answer. There is not one shred of evidence that she was a pastor. We should not act presumptuiously with scripture.

Scripture interprets scripture. It's like that other thread about how to proove the Trinity. It's easy! In Isaiah Jesus is called Emmanual: "God with us". All thru the OT we are told that there is only [b]ONE[/b] true God. We cant have two Gods, or three Gods. There is only ONE God. Blam! Discussion over.

But today it's becoming disturbingly popular for people to say that Paul was sexist, Paul was predjudice, Paul was only giving his "opinion", the writings of Paul may not have been inspired.

Rebellious people want to do their own thing, and Paul's writings cramp their style. Women want to be pastors when Paul was very clear... [b]NO[/b]. There is an order to God's church, and Paul explained quite clearly [b]why[/b] this order was to be established.

We dont like it, so we dismiss Paul.

People who do this are no different from the foolish Israelites of the OT. Dont like God's Law, so just dismiss Moses. Go off and do what seem right in their own eyes.

What happens then? Every chapter begins with "and they did evil in the sight of the Lord"... until they are hauled off in captivity.

You can show me so-called "fruit" all day long... if the means contradict scripture, it's sin. It's rebellion. It's disobedience.

The fruit of Joyce Meyer? Really? I dont have time to get into the [b]damage[/b] people like Joyce Meyer are doing to the church. The WOF movement is a scourge on the church. The heretical teachings, and the deception that goes on far outways any "good fruit" that results of what little real scripture teaching goes on. For the most part, what they teach isnt the truth. It's like eating meat thats been sitting out for 12 hours... there is still protein in it, but there is also bacteria and who knows what else that can make you pretty sick.

I might get in some trouble for this, but Joyce Meyer would do well to sit down and shut up... and sell some of her jewelry and houses and cars and put that money to better use. She is not only a heretic, but she is a money changer in the temple.

[b]Luke 20:46-47[/b] [i]Beware of the scribes, which desire to walk in long robes, and love greetings in the markets, and the highest seats in the synagogues, and the chief rooms at feasts; Which devour widows' houses, and for a show make long prayers: the same shall receive greater damnation.[/i]

Krispy

 2007/6/5 16:25









 Re:

Mike... you're much more eloquent than I... lol

:-P

Krispy

 2007/6/5 16:27
wallbuilder
Member



Joined: 2007/2/15
Posts: 44


 Re:

Thank you for your responses.

I think it's ironic Mike that you quoted Matthew Henry to validate your point. Why did you quote someone from church history, a commentator, when you claim the Bible is the only valid source for this issue.

And why do you offer women's sermons on this site who TEACH when there's men in the audience? Maybe you should warn the men who visit here not to read their messages. Isn't that called hypocrisy? If you're going to say the things you do, then do the right thing and remove the sermons and teachings from the women on this site because according to you, this is rebellion against Scripture.

Get over the Joyce Meyer thing!!! I have cited many other women of God that have had and do have valid public ministries. Pick another one to rip apart.

It's also ironic that Elizbeth Elliot has written many books that have blessed the body of Christ, and I'm sure many MEN have read her material and learned a thing or two. I guess that makes her disobedient as well, or at least contradicting herself.

Krispy, as far as using church history as a source, yes, it is a more than valid point, if the fruit and doctrine of the people are good examples and don't contradict Scripture. And the ones cited don't. Catherine Booth? What do you have to say against her? I'm sure her husband, William under whose authority she was, would have a thing or two to say to you.

As I said before, we can go on and on with this issue. There are many who think as I do and many who think as you do. If you don't like a woman in the pulpit, then don't listen. It's just sad to me, the lack of understanding and humility over this issue.

Peace in Christ

 2007/6/5 17:57Profile









 Re:

Wallbuilder, I hope you stay around. You have a LOT to offer. (Psst, I think they have the women mp3's on here for "us women" and might not admit to listening to any of those wonderful sermons anyway!! LOL)

So please stay!!!

Lisa

 2007/6/5 21:11
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: Teaching and preaching

Quote:
I think it's ironic Mike that you quoted Matthew Henry to validate your point. Why did you quote someone from church history, a commentator, when you claim the Bible is the only valid source for this issue.


I do not recall making that statement even if in ultimate truth the Bible [i]is[/i] the only valid source for any issue that concernens the Chrisitan. There is a great deal of history that we would be wise to avail ourselves of, in fact it is a constant appealing to in this place.

Dear sister you are jumping to great conclusions here and I do not believe you have read much of what was stated without a lot of presumption on your part.

[i]In the church[/i]. This is the primary issue.

No where was there a 'ripping apart' of anyone here. No where is there any statements being made that would follow your line of reasoning. Elizabeth Elliot and Catherine Booth did not lead or pastor a [i]church[/i]. This is the whole point that is trying to be made.

There is a very good reason that many woman are presented here and that many dear sisters as I mentioned elsewhere are also present in this fellowship. But you will not get very far taking an all encompassing tactic and then jumping to conclusions. Are you really interested in finding what the original intention was that sparks so much of this 'controversy'? It is an honest question sister.

In fact if you were to look back through church history, from the apostles onward, what indeed do you find ... [i]in the church[/i]? Is scripture 'progressive' or 'fixed'?

Please give this prior thread a look sister, there is a great deal to be taken into account that may well surprise you in what is thought about this whole matter.

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=flat&order=0&topic_id=1751&forum=36&post_id=&refresh=Go]Can women preach/teach in church?[/url]

It might take some time to work through it but I just would ask that you might get a better overview by doing so.


_________________
Mike Balog

 2007/6/5 22:40Profile





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