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 Re: Is Prayer Really The Answer?

Prayer is NOT the answer!

Before you jump down my throat, it is the GOD WHO ANSWERS PRAYER WHO IS THE ANSWER, not the prayer itself!

Therefore we should pray to Him if we want an answer!

I suspect that is what Bro Compliments was after in asking this.

Jeannette

 2007/6/1 16:11









 Re:

Quote:
Therefore we should pray to Him if we want an answer!

I like your answer Jeanette.

 2007/6/1 16:27
running2win
Member



Joined: 2007/5/15
Posts: 231
Bowmansville Penssylvania USA

 Re:to Jeanette

Quote:
Prayer is NOT the answer!

Before you jump down my throat, it is the GOD WHO ANSWERS PRAYER WHO IS THE ANSWER, not the prayer itself!

Therefore we should pray to Him if we want an answer!


I completely agree with you and I am 99% sure everyone does too. I believe it's just a matter of not taking the time to think through the thing completely. Thank you for the reminder to be quick with our minds and not our words! :lol:
Quote:
""Prayer is not a kind of begging for favours; it
is rather breathing and living in God."
Sadhu Sundar Singh


This breathing and living in God I think is what we are refering to. That goes for me anyway!
My apologies for not being more thoughtful in expressing myself :-)


_________________
Jeff Mollman

 2007/6/1 16:56Profile









 Re:

Quote:

running2win wrote:
Quote:
Prayer is NOT the answer!

Before you jump down my throat, it is the GOD WHO ANSWERS PRAYER WHO IS THE ANSWER, not the prayer itself!

Therefore we should pray to Him if we want an answer!


I completely agree with you and I am 99% sure everyone does too. I believe it's just a matter of not taking the time to think through the thing completely. Thank you for the reminder to be quick with our minds and not our words! :lol:

I just wanted to say that because sometimes we tend to miss the obvious unless someone says it. I often miss things too. Tip: If I'm being brief, (as above) instead of long-winded, it's usually more inspired!

Quote:
Quote:
""Prayer is not a kind of begging for favours; it is rather breathing and living in God."
Sadhu Sundar Singh


This breathing and living in God I think is what we are refering to. That goes for me anyway!
My apologies for not being more thoughtful in expressing myself

Why apologise? That is so true; "living and breathing in Him", wonderful thought...

Does that mean that we don't necessarily need to spend long hours actually "on our knees" praying. Quotes "", because one can pray in any position! I knew of a lady who would pray while on the toilet - the only place she could get a little peace from a lively family! Gives "go into your closet and shut the door..." a whole new meaning! (for non Brits, the toilet, loo oor whatever you call it, is also sometimes called the WC, meaning "water [u]closet[/u]"!)

I often find it hard to know if I'm praying or just discussing something with myself, in the Lord's presence. Living alone I get some good conversations going like that! He's always included, but I don't really know which one of us I'm talking to a lot of the time! :lol:

Blessings

Jeannette

 2007/6/2 5:04









 Re: Is Prayer the Answer


Mike Balog that was an awesome post! Thank you.


On praying, I would say that there is more to receiving God's answers, sometimes, than (first) merely making our requests known to Him, and (second) merely listening to what He returns.

What He returns by way of answers, will depend on what we asked (obviously), so we need to have an attitude which reflects a willingness to receive the appropriate answer to our request.

For instance, if we are trying to find conviction over a known sin, but we [i]feel[/i] unrepentant, then we have to be willing to receive repentance as a gift, to feel our sorrow for sin, and genuinely to grasp the open window of the moment to cement our decision to stop that sin while there in His presence, under the power of His Spirit.


On a completely different matter of prayer - healing - the same open-ness is necessary: be it in our mind to receive a new way of thinking, a healing from hurt which will require us to behave differently in future, to find forgiveness of ourself, or give forgiveness to another, or be it to receive healing into a part of our physical being. Let us bring that part of our constitution (mind, soul, heart or body), into His presence with expectancy, and wait there in His presence in as much rest as we can contain, until we trust that He has answered.

Then we must move on, believing we have received, and trusting that in three days (if not before) we will rise from the dead effectively, renewed in His resurrection life.

 2007/6/2 5:40
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: Prayer

Quote:
I just wanted to say that because sometimes we tend to miss the obvious unless someone says it. I often miss things too.



Acknowledged and well understood.
Quote:
Does that mean that we don't necessarily need to spend long hours actually "on our knees" praying. Quotes "", because one can pray in any position! I knew of a lady who would pray while on the toilet - the only place she could get a little peace from a lively family! Gives "go into your closet and shut the door..." a whole new meaning! (for non Brits, the toilet, loo oor whatever you call it, is also sometimes called the WC, meaning "water closet"!)



Not position but [i]disposition[/i] I would agree. You can be 'on your knees' in traffic, in conversation, as you mentioned above ... anywhere and at all times ... [i]praying in the spirit[/i] and 'without ceasing' I have come to understand is both ... somewhat subconscious in that it is 'part' of you that comes forth without dedicated effort, like breathing. [i]Oh Lord[/i] escapes from the depths doesn't it? it comes up into the mind, the thoughts, it is an utterance that doesn't always have to make a verbal noise escaping over the cords past the tongue and the lips. Is it not very much the essence of?;

[i]And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.[/i] Gal 4:6

And maybe the greatest of all;

Rom 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

[url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=3869&commentView=itemComments]Fresh Wind, Fresh Fire[/url]

Thank you brother for bringing this back up again, a needed refresher. There is some great challenges in this message and more over that trilogy of books from Jim Cymbala. Those had a tremendous effect right around the time of discovery of this wonder of wonders here. Thought he did a masterful job on the whole premise, taking note of when humans began to truly pray, according to the scriptures. That being the first instances of [i]crying out[/i], believe it was from
[url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=117]Calling On The Name Of The Lord[/url]

Sorry for jumping around here a bit, our sister again;

Quote:
I often find it hard to know if I'm praying or just discussing something with myself, in the Lord's presence. Living alone I get some good conversations going like that! He's always included, but I don't really know which one of us I'm talking to a lot of the time!



Love your stark honesty and well know what you mean here. Somewhere along the line picked up this notice by way of a quote I believe alluding to this. Primarily the emphasis on [i]"just discussing something with myself, in the Lord's presence[/i]" ... The sermons I have preached! Oh my, [i]to God[/i], the sense of preaching to the choir ... hard to say that without wondering at the misconceptions. But it has given me pause and I am thankful for it, it has become pretty much embedded and find that I will often stop suddenly in the midst of it and ... become silent, does any of this whole long discourse have any bearing on what You would have me addressing, thinking on ... is it [i]prayer[/i]? Lord? Is how the thinking goes. To go back to duration, time spent, focused, and concentrated prayer ... It does take that element of time, how long ... it is an amazing thing that it can be as short as to startle and as a long as to be likewise amazed that hours may have gone by in what seemed to be minutes. An excerpt from Eugene Price is coming to mind (If I have the name correct here), will have to dig it up and present it here.

Perhaps what I wanted to note was that the 'subconscious' praying that goes out [i]without ceasing[/i] has to come from the times of concentrated effort in time spent focused in the closet. It is impossible, rather let me put it another way ... you run out of fuel. Running on the 'reserves'. The very example is of our Lord, our Lord! Think of it!;

Mar 6:46 And when he had sent them away, he departed into a mountain to pray.

Luk 6:12 And it came to pass in those days, that he went out into a mountain to pray, and continued all night in prayer to God.

Luk 5:16 And he withdrew himself into the wilderness, and prayed.

Realize this all seems so very basic, but this last passage in Luke here, a bit of commentary;

[b]Luk 5:16 -
And he withdrew himself into the wilderness[/b] - Or rather, He frequently withdrew into the desert. This I believe to be the import of the original words, ην ὑποχωρων. He made it a frequent custom to withdraw from the multitudes for a time, and pray, teaching hereby the ministers of the Gospel that they are to receive fresh supplies of light and power from God by prayer, that they may be the more successful in their work; and that they ought to seek frequent opportunities of being in private with God and their books. A man can give nothing unless he first receive it; and no man can be successful in the ministry who does not constantly depend upon God, for the excellence of the power is all from him. Why is there so much preaching, and so little good done? Is it not because the preachers mix too much with the world, keep too long in the crowd, and are so seldom in private with God? Reader! Art thou a herald for the Lord of hosts? Make full proof of thy ministry! Let it never be said of thee, “He forsook all to follow Christ, and to preach his Gospel, but there was little or no fruit of his labor; for he ceased to be a man of prayer, and got into the spirit of the world.” Alas! alas! is this luminous star, that was once held in the right hand of Jesus, fallen from the firmament of heaven, down to the Earth!

Adam Clarke

[b]Luk 5:16 - He withdrew[/b] - The expression in the original implies, that he did so frequently.

John Wesley

"Frequently" even that doesn't seem to codify it.

Joh 8:28 Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.

Indeed it [i]is[/i] the [i]answer[/i], prayer. The Upper Room, they prayed [i]until[/i] ...

Act 1:14 These all continued with one accord in prayer and supplication, with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brethren.

[i]Continue in prayer, and watch in the same with thanksgiving; Withal praying also for us, that God would open unto us a [u]door of utterance, to speak[/u] the mystery of Christ, for which I am also in bonds: That I [u]may make it manifest[/u], as I ought to speak.[/i] Col 4:2-4

Notice how closely related this is to John 8:28 above?


Rom 12:12 rejoicing in hope, patient in affliction, steadfastly continuing in prayer,

Seem to be getting a bit distracted in my thoughts here and perhaps emphasizing the obvious. To break off to a personal note ... This morning was again one of those times of inexpressible ... [i]anguish[/i]. It is so much further down past the emotions ... it seems to take the breath away or maybe better stated find at times that the breathing has become labored
unnoticed, the recognition that something is being drawn up and out of you ... Ah, sometimes it is peculiar to try an attempt to given expression to that which is [i]groanings which cannot be uttered[/i], the silliness of trying to do so! Be that as it may, it is painful in such a different respect, it is [i]spiritual pain[/i] if I may put it that way without the associated baggage of being 'overly spiritual'. My, catching myself with my own words here, what [i]is[/i] being 'overly spiritual' in this regard anyway? Is it possible? If our Lord could go to such lengths as to pray out into manifestations of blood through the very pores of His skin ... Reminded of;

Heb 12:4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.

Many ways that could be taken I suppose, not trying to press it out of proper bounds. [i]Striving[/i] [u]against[/u] sin. What is the trouble? What is the striving and against what in particular? My thoughts and 'prayers' were many but it keeps coming back to the same things and I want to say [i]spiritual sins[/i].What came to mind in the midst of it all was;

1Jn 5:16 If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask, and God will give him life--to those who commit sins that do not lead to death. There is sin that leads to death; I do not say that one should pray for that.

Now there is certainly many aspects to what all is being spoken of here and I was only taking note of just one thing; The distinction and that distinction and what the trouble was, is that which is quoted in the signiture now at bottom, from Oswald Chambers (borrowed from Greg's article on [url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic_pdf.php?topic_id=17189&forum=16]THOUGHTS ON THE COMING JUDGEMENT[/url]).

[i]" A wrong temper of mind about another soul will end in the spirit of the devil, no matter how saintly you are. One carnal judgment, and the end of it is hell in you. Drag it to the light at once and say - "My God, I have been guilty there." If you don't, hardness will come all through."[/i] ~ Oswald Chambers

Bitterness of spirit. The spiritual sin of pride, the spiritual sin of arrogance and haughtiness, the spiritual sin of gossip, the spiritual sin of presumption ... Each and every sin that is named as such throughout scripture has it's [i]root[/i], it's 'nerve' center ... Is this not why the [i]creation groans[/i]? And [i]we[/i] groan as well?

[i]A wrong temper of mind[/i], says more than I ever could. It was a mourning of it in general, in specific for my own failings and a mourning of it towards someone I love and have not figured out how to properly convey that this is the matter that is grieving the Holy Spirit. That, in itself is so wrought with notions of it's own ... who is to say that the troubles we bear are those of His grieving? Is it in itself presumption? Is it not greatly peddled in the world of Christendom as so? Is [i]that[/i] a derogatory statement? "Christendom"? I am not speaking of wavering at all but the perceptions given. Mode, manner and method. [i]Bitterness of spirit[/i], is it ever justifiable? I am speaking of that which launches volleys, that tears and accuses wrongly, presumptuously, it defies itself in expression that it 'means no harm'? Slanderous accusation, killing, [i]spiritual murder[/i] in the m i n d, yes, "spiritual mind murder" is this not all that the Lord Jesus came to put Sword of the Spirit to? The nerve center where outward sins are processed before they become manifestations? That those very [i]thoughts[/i] are spiritual death and spiritual sin?

And that somehow we should give this a pass, an exemption ... a justification?


_________________
Mike Balog

 2007/6/2 12:28Profile
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: Excerpt on prayer

An excerpt from Eugenia Price;

... I hated doing it, but I kept on getting up at 6:30 A.M. for my hour with the Lord. I got nothing out of it and I told Him so. But i got up anyway and now I know that every syllable of the Word of God which we drop into our subconscious minds stays there and becomes a [i]usable part[/i] of us! Even if we don't seem to 'get it' with our conscious minds.

"Then the 'crisis' time arrived and no one was more surprised than I. On September 24, 1954 at 9 A.M My friend Ellen had been awake late the night before and asked me to let her sleep until 9. I had been reading more or less at random and with little or no understanding, here and there in the New Testament. Then I noticed my watch. It was five minutes until 9. I remembered my promise to waken her.

"'Let her have another five minutes,' I thought. And then I recall sitting there with no particular direction to my thinking. I was asking God for nothing. I was still in the grayness and still felt empty and very [i]un[/i]spiritual. As our thoughts do, when we are wool-gathering, mine flew to the big heart-breaking problem in my life at that time. Then I found myself looking at the entire period of my Christian life. Suddenly aloud to the Lord, I said, 'What does it mean to have a new life? What does it [i]really[/i] mean?"

"Here I make no effort to explain anything. I received no direct 'answer' as such. But for what could have been [i]any[/i] length of time in my judgment, there began a 'leading' by the Holy Spirit through the scriptures, to one surprising spot and then another, some of which I couldn't have found otherwise without my concordance. He (the Holy Spirit) [i]had[/i] to begin where He began. I shall simply list the scriptures and add what they meant to me on that morning:

([i]Mike's interjection here, will largely skip over this, it is 6 scriptures and she goes into a bit of detail, you will have to get the book![/i])

Acts 4:31 ...
... This seemed to suddenly fill me with a new eagerness and expectation! ... I felt very excited as I seemed compelled to turn to: ... The 14th chapter of John ... Then, I didn't seem at that surprised to find myself quickly flipping the pages of the Bible to: ... - not being aware that He was directing at all. Just following quickly. almost tearing the pages of my Bible in my haste ...

"Then I remembered the time. It could have been noon! And I had promised Ellen I'd waken her at 9! I looked at my watch. It was exactly nine o'clock. [i]All this had taken place in five minutes of earth - time.[/i]

From [i]Eugenia Price: The Buoyant Life[/i]

Itself, excerpts from the chapter of the same name contained in a book I couldn't recommend more highly:

[url=http://books.google.com/books?id=ay9m4C2G98oC&pg=PA138&lpg=PA138&dq=eugenia+price+the+buoyant+life&source=web&ots=y-s7HvyTHX&sig=qVE8en4HiXDfg-f5JnveUMHQf7k#PPP1,M1]They Found the Secret: Twenty Transformed Lives that Reveal a Touch of Eternity [/url]
[i]By[/i] Victor Raymond Edman


_________________
Mike Balog

 2007/6/2 13:43Profile









 Re:

Quote:
Mike said: I hated doing it, but I kept on getting up at 6:30 A.M. for my hour with the Lord. I got nothing out of it and I told Him so. But I got up anyway

I hear ya, I would start an early morning prayer meeting with the LORD and I found myself not getting anywhere, hence the reason why I started this thread.

Is Prayer the answer?

Jeanette said that it's not the answer, but that God is the answer. I agree with her mindset.

I am more convinced that our heavenly Father is interested in a consistant relationship of time spent alone with Him. It's not how many words we can say to Him, the important thing is; what is He saying to us?

I think of Mary and Martha
Quote:
Luke 10:39 And she had a sister called Mary, which also sat at Jesus' feet, and heard his word.

This is what prayer is to me, it's not what I am saying that matters it's what Jesus is saying.

Don't get me wrong, we have our time to speak, our needs, wants and cares. When you think about the LORD's prayer, it's a prayer that we do not verbally say everyday, it's a life that the Father does within us.

I sense this longing from the LORD that He wants to spend time with me.

I enjoy your thoughts on this matter.

 2007/6/2 14:37
awakenwithin
Member



Joined: 2007/1/31
Posts: 985
AZ

 Re:

Mike said: I hated doing it, but I kept on getting up at 6:30 A.M. for my hour with the Lord. I got nothing out of it and I told Him so. But I got up anyway



when this man and women frist got married they love each so much, then years went by and then the husband would sit down with his wife everyday, and they taked and he went away and said I got nothing from it, but he kept talking with her, he had to it was his wife.
But if this kept happeing there relationship wouldn't grow. He was doing it because it was his duty. SHe might feel he really dosn't love her. Was it becasue he was tride that he wasn't enjoying it, what was making the time unenjoyable? Speaking for myself, I don't where you are, but I know what I have gone through. When I came to know the Lord, 5 years ago, I thought I was to be in prayer and reading everyday. SO I did it, I woke everyday, I would kill if anyone tryed to mass up my time with the Lord. Part of it was duty, But I love it. It was somthing I enjoyed. It seemed so easy for the frist three years of my walk. I had this picture of Christ and cross so big in my mind, I was forgiven! I had this picture I was worthless yet He loved me. I just wanted to know everything about him. I just wanted to be with him, he was enoyed to with, even I said nothing. Prayer was just part of my life. I was told you can't do this with God, so I started praying. Out of just wanting to get to know him and knowing I was weak. Maybe this why God made me sick so often to really show, Charlene you are weak you need me. Then he show me the Cross, I am forgiven, How I love you was my cry.LOve mcuh forgiven much So at frist It was easy to pray, and read. then trails came in, one after other, I was faced with awaking up ealier, or people trying to come over in morning. I saw that it was a real fight to pray, and to be with Lord. God kept Saying rembemer what I brought you from. Rembemer my love. Rembemer how good it is to be with me. Anyways, through that I kept my time with Lord strong. But I came to Tuscon. To live with my brother and my father. I was away from my Church and friends. I was alone. I started to sin, Just a little one here and there. But it hurt my time with Lord in big ways. Sowly I started to let in more little sins in my life. It kept hurting my time with Lord. I would repent then the next week i would do it again. By my way of life had changed. I was sining in areas I didn't even know. Or I saw and didn't care. I have seen over the last 6months I have been in a battle to trun from my wicked ways, I let myself do these little things, now I am paying for even today. I now starting to see, ho wmy sin, is keeping from my the way I loved my God. My sin had taken some of the joy in meeting with God, they have taken My desire to know God's word more, they have hurt my time with him. I still meet with My lord everyday, But I know my how my sin has taken so much. I might say they are little sins. such as staying up late, or eating some foods, or not wearing my seat belt. But these are big, it is my heart behind them. So I know for myself, if I don;t want to pray, or read, with Lord that day I know have not obeying my Lord.
Sin keep from treasuring Christ.
Also in the last 6 months I see that when I am not putting Gods word into my mind, I can't pray as well. But I have seen, when I am in sin, I don't enjoy being with God as I should. But when I am humble and confess he really speaks to me.
One thing God taught this week, I don't you doing, I want your heart. DOn't be doing, but be!

YOu are right God is the answer but he use prayer
He calls us to pray, we are disobeying when we aren't. Prayer is what we do to cry out and say God humble me, prayer is where we speak our hearts.
Prayer show us how little we can do anything without God.
But even our prayers can be in vain, if we are sin. So it must be our hearts asking to be changed, so yes prayer is huge it is our life line to God. who hears and answers.
SO with the husband. Maybe he was in worng, in heart, if he loves his wife, he should enjoy being with her, so it aways sin that takes that joy away?

In his love
charlene


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charlene

 2007/6/2 23:05Profile
Rahman
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Joined: 2004/3/24
Posts: 1374


 Re: Is Prayer Really The Answer?


i've given much thought to this thread ever since it was first posted and my answer today is still the same one that initially popped in my spirit ...

i think FAITH is the answer! ...

i say this in pondering what the dynamic was that initially facillitated my connection to God in the first place, via Christ, and what sustains and or motivates me to keep on keeping on in all aspects of Christian persuance (including prayer) when i'd much rather give up ...

In my life right now there are a few things that i've prayed and prayed about for decades, doing so and moving on out of faith ... Just as there are many things that i've stopped praying about, and moving on, now rested in the fact that i've done what i believe i've heard Him say do in my life, and as to prayers unanswered as yet i've come to "God is not hard of hearing" and if in fact He chooses to answer my prayers i now have come to a level of faith that says "whatever the outcome His will will be best for me" ... i'm clay - He's the Potter ...

So it's FAITH for me that's the answer, for without it i know it's impossible to please Him ... Just as i now know that whatever He requires of us, if we surrender and submit to it, the measure of faith necessary to motivate and sustain us to completion is already alloted out to us ... i believe it's my faith that gives Holy Spirit the leverage to keep on moving me past my "self" when i don't want to pray (but should), and stop praying (when i should cease) ... i think faith is my motivator, my prayer life is just some of the fruit from that faith ...

Blessings in Christ, and i pray that all are spiritually well in our Lord Jesus ... Amen

 2007/6/6 13:53Profile





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