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KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re: To answer your question

Art Katz's "Apostolic Foundations" has a good chapter dedicated to Biblical spiritual warfare in regard to principalities and powers. He really hits the nail on the head in regard to a comment on an often looked over verse, Epesians 3:10 "so that the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known through the church to the rulers and the authorities in the heavenly places."

Basically he says we have been ignorant of the fact that our evangelism and outreach isn't merely to be preaching to the lost sinners of this world. But that our preaching, and especially our living, should be so absorbed in the life of Christ that for us to preach and live is to make an ultimate statement to these wicked forces in heavenly places. It's to declare a victory at which they tremble to hear proclaimed.

I can't say I personally know of any good books on the subject. Even though I am a Pentecostal, I'd say most of the books I've come across on the topic are nothing more than hocus pocus and filled with wild and speculative imaginations. As it is, the Scriptures give very little information on spiritual warfare.

The gist of it is that there are wicked forces in heavenly places (see Ephesians & Colossians) known as principalities and powers that influence mankind, with Satan being the chief "prince and power of the air." These principalities and powers seem tied to geographic regions and/or people groups. They seem to attempt to dominate a given society with whatever wicked agenda's they might have. Contrary to some charismaniacs who spend hours rebuking these spirits thinking that by doing such they break up their influence... their influence is only diminished through obedience to the gospel. Which is why they seek to blind people to the truth of the gospel. For such is how Christ made a demonstration to the god of this world, by not being subject those fears, threats, intimidations, lusts, etc.

Then of course, there are demons who demonize individuals, bind them, and make them sick. Deliverance from such can only come through a demonstration of the power of God's kingdom over that of Satan's. Such must simply be cast out of an individual.


_________________
Jimmy H

 2007/6/1 23:52Profile









 Re:

Quote:

KingJimmy wrote:
Art Katz's "Apostolic Foundations" has a good chapter dedicated to Biblical spiritual warfare in regard to principalities and powers. He really hits the nail on the head in regard to a comment on an often looked over verse, Epesians 3:10 "so that the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known through the church to the rulers and the authorities in the heavenly places."

Basically he says we have been ignorant of the fact that our evangelism and outreach isn't merely to be preaching to the lost sinners of this world. But that our preaching, and especially our living, should be so absorbed in the life of Christ that for us to preach and live is to make an ultimate statement to these wicked forces in heavenly places. It's to declare a victory at which they tremble to hear proclaimed.

I can't say I personally know of any good books on the subject. Even though I am a Pentecostal, I'd say most of the books I've come across on the topic are nothing more than hocus pocus and filled with wild and speculative imaginations. As it is, the Scriptures give very little information on spiritual warfare.

The gist of it is that there are wicked forces in heavenly places (see Ephesians & Colossians) known as principalities and powers that influence mankind, with Satan being the chief "prince and power of the air." These principalities and powers seem tied to geographic regions and/or people groups. They seem to attempt to dominate a given society with whatever wicked agenda's they might have. Contrary to some charismaniacs who spend hours rebuking these spirits thinking that by doing such they break up their influence... their influence is only diminished through obedience to the gospel. Which is why they seek to blind people to the truth of the gospel. For such is how Christ made a demonstration to the god of this world, by not being subject those fears, threats, intimidations, lusts, etc.

Then of course, there are demons who demonize individuals, bind them, and make them sick. Deliverance from such can only come through a demonstration of the power of God's kingdom over that of Satan's. Such must simply be cast out of an individual.

Thanks KJ. I think that was what I was sort-of trying to say in my last post, but you put it much fuller and better, with additions.
Quote:
I'd say most of the books I've come across on the topic are nothing more than hocus pocus and filled with wild and speculative imaginations.

Yes, same here. There was one which I read years ago, called "Pigs in the Parlour", on practical aspects of deliverance, which probably came into this category. Although at the time I wasn't able to discern if it was good or not. There were some books by a lady called Rebecca Brown, an ex-witch - that I would avoid like the plague - really way off spiritually. Obviously she wasn't really clear of the demonic herself, though I have no doubt that she'd made some genuine response to the Lord. Jeanne Harper,(spelling?) is OK, and another who was actually a "queen" witch, (one who had the "privilege" of meeting Satan in person). She's very well known but I forget her name - she wrote "Witchcraft to Christ" and various other books since). They both seem to have come out clean and clear from it, unlike Rebecca Brown. The second one has written on spiritual warfare I'm certain.

Blessings

Jeannette

 2007/6/2 4:49
IRONMAN
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Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 Re:

Sis Jeannette
greetings in Christ's name by whose Blood we are justified. AMEN.

Quote:
Jesus cast lots of demons out of individuals but did He deal with the ruling evil Power over Jerusalem, or that which drove the religious leaders, or the evil spirits behind Rome - which together conspired to crucify Him?



This is the thing, Christ's contention with those powers which exercised influence over the various locales and even cities and nations was in the casting out of demons from individuals but it culminated at the cross. It was there that the powers were completely disarmed and undone. It seems to me that this work is a bottom up, or inside out job. We don't necessarily confront the powers directly but in the preaching of Christ (which we are enabled to do by the work on the cross), we reduce their influence by bringing men to salvation. Thereafter God works by His Spirit to form the image of Christ which involves the pulling down of strongholds and vain imaginings which seek to exhault themselves above God. Our Chief weapon is the Gospel which gives us access to the other weapons which are quick and powerful for this work.

Quote:
That doesn't mean we can't be used by the Lord in dealing with lesser evils, or with Enemy strongholds that He is giving temporary respite from. For example, I've heard that, in the Beatles era, when they began to go into drugs and Eastern religion etc, their pet Guru (forget his name) was going to visit them in Britain. When he arrived he had to turn around and go straight back, all his power was gone, I think, before he even stepped off the boat!



i was listening to one of the preachers listed here on this topic and he talked of the same thing. Prayer is a quick and powerful weapon in this. oh that we would be on our knees more!

Quote:
Was it because Christians had let their guard down, or did God actually allow it? If He did, why did He?



ahh the million dollar question which invariably comes up when we think we have God all figured out and in a nice box with a bow on it! Oh dear brethren if we know God as we ought, we should know that He is SOvereign, All Sovereign should i say. He can do as He pleases without explanation, reason (which we can elucidate), or warning (seemingly, He always sends prophets, we just reject them or forget their messages) This throws the wrench in the plan so to speak and forces us to abandon our understanding of Him and cry uncle! i love God for this for i am left with no recourse but to press ever deeper into Him,at this stage i have no choice, He's drawn me too far out into the deep waters. i can't see the shore and i have not any energy swim back...it's all about Him now...

Quote:
Jesus used different "methods" when healing and casting out demons. When there was a storm on Galilee, (as someone suggested, probably a demonic storm) Jesus didn't even bother to fight - He just went to sleep. He only took authority against the storm (apparently the words "be still!" literally mean "be muzzled!") in response to the terrified disciples' plea (and when fishermen panic at a storm at sea it has to be a bad one!)



and this is the confounding of the powers, Christ napping in the midst of something which had the disciples beside themselves with fear. Oh the depth of the knowledge and wisdom of God, [i][b]who[/b][/i]indeed has been His counselor?!

Quote:
Each time the ways of victory are different. But always from the basis of HIS Victory on the Cross. We fight FROM that Victory, not in order to gain it.



come on sis Jeannette tell it! that victory on the cross is our home base, it is the very thing which has made occasion for us to be used to display the manifold wisdom of God against the powers. it was there that the powers were disarmed and in reminding them of that, they tremble. this that you said blessed me so and has given me fodder for what God will have me write on this issue!

Quote:
As it says in James 4:7, "Submit... to God. Resist the devil..."



to submit to God is the only way to resist the devil because only from His Throne can we receive Grace to do so. This is why the Christian had better not run around talking about free will. To do so and to acknowledge free will and exercise it is to be in bondage to the enemy because man is inherently sinful and apart from God can do no good. So when we submit ourselves whole, free will (perceived or whatever depending on your view i suppose) and all we resist the devil and display His Wisdom to the Powers and cast them down as lightning. not sure if any of you know Bob Marley's music but there is a song called "Rastaman Chant" in which there is a line which says "Babylon throne gone down" which is to say Babylon's throne(s)are cast down. All of a sudden that line means something to me...

Quote:
....''Sigh'' I wish I knew more of the practice of this, as well as the theory!



Well it seems God is working to minister to us all about this issue from the word and this discussion has given Him occasion to so do, praise His name!

Grace and Peace to you all Brethren in His name. AMEN.


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Farai Bamu

 2007/6/3 23:47Profile
IRONMAN
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Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 Re: To answer your question

bro Daryl greetings in Christ's name. AMEN
Thank you for what you posted, i pray God open doors to reveal to us all what we need to know concerning Spiritual Warfare.

God bless and keep you. AMEN.


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Farai Bamu

 2007/6/3 23:48Profile
ChrisJD
Member



Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re: no quarter

Hi everyone.


Ironman, how are you?


I had a dream recently that I would like to share some of, in relation to the topic here.


First a bit of background.


Last week there were at least a couple of times on the bus(I ride public transportation) that I was greatly troubled/grieved by all of the foul and rotten language being used. I like to read the Bible while I ride the bus and it can become very difficult to concentrate with all of the filth and rotteness being spoken. Sometimes I just give up reading and pray and call upon God.


Well last week there were a couple of times at least that I got so tired of hearing the language that was being used that I began to earnestly ask God to stop their mouths and saying of these things.


Sometime later in the week I had a dream. In the dream I got into a confrontation with a young man that I ended up throwing off the train we were on. He was being very antagonistic(I don't mean to say here that I was right for doing that, I'm only relating the events in the dream!). Next I remember someone saying to me not to worry about it, that it would go to judgement and(this is a bit foggy) but I think they said I would be vindicated.


Next I remember going into this room and looking outside, I noticed that there were giants outside along with other people(mostly women I think). Then I remember my earthly father coming to the window, looking out and saying(we had been afraid because of the giants) he said 'oh is that all?" and he let them in!


The next thing I recall is going after one of the giants that had come in and trying to attack him physically. I remember being afraid while looking at how big he was and thinking how badly it would hurt if he hit me.


After this, I recall seeing a notepad in the hand of one of the giants. I remember next that I grabbed the notepad out of his hand and began to tear it up and to tear up the pages.

After this I woke-up, or at least was somewhat conscious. And I was trying to figure out the significance of the dream and then of the notepads. Why did I grab the notepad and start to tear it up? I remember praying and asking God for understanding about this.


Now here is what I understood. I cannot and do not say that this is what God said, but I do recall having these words come to mind about the notepad and the pages:

They are either empty or they are full.


They are either open or they are closed.




And as I meditated upon these things, here is what I understood these words to mean:


That the notepad represented the things which the evil spirits attempt to introduce into our hearts and minds, those things which they try to write upon them. And that our hearts and minds are either open or closed to them and they are either empty or they are full; empty or full of the Holy Spirit. That is what I understood about that: that we need to be full of the Holy Spirit so that they have no place to write.


What do you all think?

I have thought about how the Lord Jesus said:




[b][color=660033]...the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.[/color][/b]


But I think also of how He told the people


[b][color=660033]I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.[/color][/b]




Well, may only God's will be done and if there is anything false in this may God utterly take it away and may He only seal to our hearts and minds what is true and what He would have us to know.


May God be gracious to us for His great name,


Love to you all,


Chris


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Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2007/6/4 13:01Profile
dohzman
Member



Joined: 2004/10/13
Posts: 2132


 Re: what a joy

I sometimes think how much a joy it is to read that which my brothers and sisters have and do experience, it's all the more rich once we have meet in person face to face. Train trax are things fixed, sometimes our course is already fixed, the directions we will take the things that will happen, the judgements that will come to pass, etc...I find it amusing that you threw off that train that vexing spirit and how your Father knew that you were able to conquer the giants that stood without. It comes to my mind from 1Jo 2:13 I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I write unto you, young men, because ye have overcome the wicked one. I write unto you, little children, because ye have known the Father.
1Jo 2:14 I have written unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I have written unto you, young men, because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one.
I note with special interest the term young men.
The note pad is interestingly those areas of our lives that the enemy takes before God to accuse us and on those grounds vex us and attempt to mold our character or conform us to those areas of accussation, so in that your interpetation is correct.

Having said all that I feel as if I'm just one ole' rambling dude speaking what may or may not be nothing more than fanciful thoughts coming upon the heels of an experience you had in a dream, I'm no Daniel. But it was enjoyable to write none the less, God Bless see you in Oct. for the Conference. Brother Daryl


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D.Miller

 2007/6/4 17:40Profile
ChrisJD
Member



Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re:

Brother Daryl, I always appreciate to hear what you have to share and take it as from an elder.


Thanks brother, and I look forward to seeing you in October, Lord willing.


Chris


_________________
Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2007/6/5 15:56Profile
jlosinski
Member



Joined: 2006/9/11
Posts: 294
North Pole, Alaska

 Re:

the invisible war by Chip Ingram is a good resource, be sure to use the outlines and look up the Bible verses.
Joe

 2007/6/6 16:57Profile
IRONMAN
Member



Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 Re:

BRO Chris
Greetings in Christ's name by whose Blood we are cleansed of sin. AMEN.

Forgive my tardy response, i didn'd have an opportunity to write back as soon as i would have liked to.

Quote:
Last week there were at least a couple of times on the bus(I ride public transportation) that I was greatly troubled/grieved by all of the foul and rotten language being used. I like to read the Bible while I ride the bus and it can become very difficult to concentrate with all of the filth and rotteness being spoken. Sometimes I just give up reading and pray and call upon God.



it seems to me the enemy likes to distract us by sending in people who swear.that's part of the weapons of his warfare i imagine. such language like you said does grieve pretty bad and i can relate. The people i play basketball with curse quite a bit and so our Lord has had me speak to some of them about it all and by His grace, His people catch themselves.

Quote:
Sometime later in the week I had a dream. In the dream I got into a confrontation with a young man that I ended up throwing off the train we were on. He was being very antagonistic(I don't mean to say here that I was right for doing that, I'm only relating the events in the dream!). Next I remember someone saying to me not to worry about it, that it would go to judgement and(this is a bit foggy) but I think they said I would be vindicated.



i never imagined you to be the type to throw anyone off a train, there is a gentleness which comes through in your posts. it is interesting how events turned out in your dream.

Quote:
That the notepad represented the things which the evil spirits attempt to introduce into our hearts and minds, those things which they try to write upon them. And that our hearts and minds are either open or closed to them and they are either empty or they are full; empty or full of the Holy Spirit. That is what I understood about that: that we need to be full of the Holy Spirit so that they have no place to write.



This here is quite interesting, especially when we think of our minds and how each thought ought to be held captive and conformed to Christ. The enemy likes to throw all sorts of wicked and vile and lascivious thoughts at us and we ought to take each one and conform it to Christ. often i have not done so and entertained such thoughts and it always leads to some sin or another. the other day i dreamt of something along those lines. There was an orgy going on before me and i was paralyzed as to what to do but i was woken up quickly and when i did with the images fresh i knew i had to reject and rebuke each one and cast that mess out. This is what you get when you mess with pronography, the enemy always throws it at you and except you reject it, you'll fall right back in. Indeed we must empty our minds and hearts of what is of the devil and be filled with HOly SPirit as you said. IT seems there is no middle ground here and we are to end up being Perfect as our Father in Heaven is Perfect. Christ came to free us from all these bonds while we are yet on earth in the very midst of the fray, the place where sin abounds. it seems to me to be full of HOly Spirit is the ticket to sinless perfection.While on this side temptation abounds and the propensity to sin is there but we have Grace in every situation to avoid sin.

Perhaps our goal is to be sinless even while we are here, even if we don't attain it, i think it is a worthy goal to press toward. If we believe it is possible then we ought to strive for it, if we don't believe it can be achieved, we're more likely to just halfway strive and barely make it into heaven. Something to consider perhaps?

Grace and Peace be yours in HIs name. AMEN.


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Farai Bamu

 2007/6/7 12:33Profile
IRONMAN
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Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 Re:

Quote:

jlosinski wrote:
the invisible war by Chip Ingram is a good resource, be sure to use the outlines and look up the Bible verses.
Joe



greetings in Christ's name and thanks bro Joe

God bless and Grace and PEace be yours in Him.


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Farai Bamu

 2007/6/7 12:35Profile





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