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Discussion Forum : General Topics : Together but not Legally Married

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 Re:

AD... they are not married, therefore he is not her husband.

What you are advising is she stay in a sinful (fornication) unrepetent state... for the sake of the children. Modeling an ungodly lifestyle for the sake of the children? How can you do that?

I have had experience with these situations, I doubt that you have.

I need not defend my advice. Your advice is wrong.

I dont normally come against something as strongly as to call a brother "wrong", but in this case, you are. And considering your putting this horrible advice in a public forum where thousands could potentially read it... I have no choice but to call you out publically.

I still love you and appreciate you, however.

Krispy

 2007/5/30 13:13
theopenlife
Member



Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 926


 Re:

MAR'RIAGE, n. [L.mas, maris.] The act of uniting a man and woman for life; wedlock; the legal union of a man and woman for life. Marriage is a contract both civil and religious, by which the parties engage to live together in mutual affection and fidelity, till death shall separate them. Marriage was instituted by God himself for the purpose of preventing the promiscuous intercourse of the sexes, for promoting domestic felicity,and for securing the maintenance and education of children.[url=http://1828.mshaffer.com/d/search/word,marriage]Websters 1828[/url]

Marriage is a lifelong commitment, made before witnesses and God. This couple seems to have never gone before men and God to proclaim their commitment. They are in no way a representation of Christ and the Church, nor does it seem that their initial coming together was intended to be.

I will pray for those in this situation. Obedience is impossible without faith, and faith comes by hearing the voice of the Spirit in the word. Get this woman in the word or it is very unlikely she will obey.

 2007/5/30 13:25Profile









 Re:

Amen....

Krispy

 2007/5/30 14:02
ADisciple
Member



Joined: 2007/2/3
Posts: 835
Alberta, Canada

 Re:

Quote:

KrispyKrittr wrote:

I have had experience with these situations, I doubt that you have.


Krispy



I don't know why you would assume that. If I hadn't had some experience in "these situations," I would not have entered this thread.

I do have some experience with "situations" like this. And some wounds, and scars, too, because of it.

I know personally some little children who are growing up without their dad. In part because of counsel I gave, in fact. I'm still torn over it. Did I counsel aright? Was that really God's own counsel I gave? And now it's a broken home. Sometimes I lie awake at night, going over it all one more time.

It is one of the most gut-wrenching things in our world today. I bleed for these kids. I have tears in my eyes right now. I'll tell you, they would do anything, give anything, to have their daddy back with them. They are growing up emotional cripples because of this. Maybe if we had just been more patient...

We are so quick to just "go by the book" without earnestly searching out God's heart in the matter. What kind of impression of a cold-hearted God does that leave with the victims of such a break up?

The Book says thus and so! But what about God's longsuffering, and patience, and forbearance, and mercy? That is also in The Book.

The advice I gave here is not unscriptural. It is very scriptural to seek counsel and enquire "of Urim and Thummim" before the Lord about such things. And of course, what counsel the Spirit of God gives, will always be found to line up with The Book, which maybe we had not understood clearly in the first place.

There's probably no way to count any more the family problems in our world today, because the foundations of the family have been so badly eroded. To sort them all out is going to take more than a check-the-rule-book answer; these are complicated problems; they need to be dealt with individually with the Holy Spirit's clear witness and input. The advice I gave was not intended to disregard the foundations by any stretch, but to deal expediently with a difficult, complex problem. And The Book (which I love very deeply) does not always present a clear what-to-do answer for such cases.

I have given my witness on this. I stand by it. I do recognize I am only one witness. The brethren who are first-hand to this situation, and know the pulse of it, need to come to agreement on it, and thereby have the witness of the Spirit. Personally, I think it's only the brethren there, the family of God right there in that situation, who can do that adequately. There are so many factors in the situation that we at a distance can't guage.

I would give one word of caution, though. If the woman does decide to leave, ultimately it should be her own, and not the church brethren's decision. That gets to be dangerous territory. Counsel, advise, help her to hear the Voice of the Lord for herself. And then, let the peace of God preside in her heart and conscience over the decision she herself makes, whether to go or to remain.

...As to your comment that you love and appreciate me in spite of my being (from your perspective) wrong, I was glad to hear that, Krispy, and I extend that same regard to you, too. Sometimes people feel very strongly about things. I've been touched very deeply, very personally, by the kind of thing being discussed here. I have very strong feelings about it. How great a need we all have to get so close to Jesus that we feel as He Himself feels, and are all of one mind on even the most difficult problems we face.

AD


_________________
Allan Halton

 2007/5/30 17:06Profile









 Re:

Quote:
Love ya, Compliments, but this is very dangerous advice.

Love you too Steven. I have to admit that I did not read into the original post. I didn't see that she was the only one that got saved, that is my fault.

I would have to agree with Krispy on this one.

I [url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=flat&order=0&topic_id=17159&forum=35&post_id=&refresh=Go]Recant[/url] my previous post!

 2007/5/30 17:20









 Re:

Quote:
God's grace is more than sufficient for a mother and her children when the children are without a dad because of obediance to God.

I agree Jeff, please disregard that post. I humbly admit my folly.

 2007/5/30 17:25
running2win
Member



Joined: 2007/5/15
Posts: 231
Bowmansville Penssylvania USA

 Re:

Quote:
If there were no children involved here, I think, yes, she could take a stand and leave. But as there are children involved, she should continue in the relationship for the children's sake.



I guess I don't understand why the childrens' presence in the home determines whether or not it truly is a marriage. How can we look at a situation and say that if they didn't have children then they wouldn't be married but since they do have children then it is a marriage. God doesn't leave it up to us to make exceptions to the rule even for the sake of being merciful to the children.
Quote:
"And everyone that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life." Matthew 19:29



There are almost always repercussions because of the sin we lived in before we were born again. You can't get around that. When a person has smoked their whole life and is dying at 55 from lung cancer does God suddenly heal them after they get born again on their death-bed? If she never got born again would you have ever thought to even consider it a marriage? Dear fellow believers, this is [b]EXTREMELY [/b] dangerous ground.


_________________
Jeff Mollman

 2007/5/30 17:29Profile
running2win
Member



Joined: 2007/5/15
Posts: 231
Bowmansville Penssylvania USA

 Re:

Compliments, you're a saint. Your humility is [b]really[/b] a blessing. And let me say to all others that read this, please don't misunderstand me, I'm not a hard hearted, unmerciful person. I feel for the children as much as anyone, but I'd rather see them in heaven because they had a mother that would do the right thing at all cost even to the point of forsaking the man she loved for Christ's sake, and not see them with the same compromising "christianity" that permiates our godless country.


_________________
Jeff Mollman

 2007/5/30 17:36Profile
vasilef
Member



Joined: 2005/12/8
Posts: 120
ROMANIA

 Re:

Thank you for all who shared their advice, good or wrong. I'm just a young married man who is very involved in this situation I've just described.
I've explained very briefly the situation. Actually it is much more complicated and I don't have such a great life experience and spiritual insight.
That's why I ask these questions... In fact, not all the questions I've asked are my questions.
Others asked me these questions and I had to think about them. (eg. that one with the piece of paper).
Some questions raised here so I'll try to give some more explanation:

Quote:
How then, after coming to the Lord, has she continued to live such a life?



I have my opinion but the advice of the elders of the church have more weight than mine. They advised her that she should live a godly life, submit her husband in the Lord and the Lord will work in his heart.

Quote:
As for the children, what good is a father that is too drunk to give them a decent home anyhow?



Generally speaking, I don't know what good is a father that is drunk but this is not an excuse for divorce.


_________________
Vasile Filip

 2007/5/31 2:25Profile
vasilef
Member



Joined: 2005/12/8
Posts: 120
ROMANIA

 Re:

Quote:
What piece of paper did Adam and Eve have?



They didn't have and they were husband and wife.
I speak in human terms... so why should we need it?

I only think that this example don't justify what you've written below:

Quote:
Please, show us some scripture to show that living together in an unmarried state is approved by God.


_________________
Vasile Filip

 2007/5/31 2:39Profile





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