| Re: response to Josef regarding the overcomer and overcoming sin|
Josef or any true saint before reading my post, please I ask God to place it in your heart to pray I overcome the following:
Thank you brother for your somewhat brutal post--"a man or woman overcome with sin is not a brother or sister in the Lord"--terrifying, deadly words. I took offense because I am shackled by sin. I have struggled with this one particular sin that has colored and crept into every part of my physical and spiritual life. But Josef I know your words are truth, God's truth.
Until I overcome I feel as though I am dead to not only God but to everything and everyone, but most importantly, far above all other things and people, to God.
Josef as I read your testimony of the Word of my Lord, I agree with you--I must overcome by God's Word, doing whatever it takes. I must overcome now because I feel time is short and we will all be standing before God to take our places in the judgement. I must overcome because God says I must.
I'm at the bottom in my sin which is gluttony and I believe the Lord has turned me over and my physical hunger has grown to the point I am desperate, isolated, dysfunctional. I have abandoned and been abandoned by all family and friends as I've isolated myself in my shame. There are so many things God has called me to which I don't do because of this shame which brings more gluttony which brings more shame. I have sought to overcome by prayer and periodic fasting for several years and still I remain in this sin. I am in despair, total despair.
I begin anew today after reading your post Josef which I thank you for. I am here at this site for this very reason, desperately looking for an answer.
Thank you Josef for your post; I pray God blesses me with your words. I pray God blesses many who are in sin with your words Josef. In Jesus' name I pray the Lord lead many to your post and I pray Jesus that we who are in sin will later give testimony that the words of our Lord spoken through Josef helped us overcome.
Also, others who posted Godly wisdom and advice I thank you also.
SAINTS OF THE LIVING GOD JESUS CHRIST, please please please pray for me, pray for us who are in sin and want to overcome.
| 2007/5/26 15:37||Profile|
Josef... I thought what you posted was good, and FreebyWord took hold of it. That's good.
But that's a pretty strong statement, that a brother struggling with sin "to the point where he cannot get free" isn't even a brother in the first place. That might be a pretty heavy word for some, so heavy they might not be able to get up from under it.
What would you say of the man who wrote Romans Chapter Seven? Not a brother? No, there are many of the Lord's own, true Christians brothers and sisters, who go through that "Romans Seven" experience, defeated by sin, and finding in themselves no hope whatsoever of ever beating that thing no matter what they do or how hard they try. And they know what it's like at the bottom of that horrible pit called despair.
The good they want to do, they can't do. The evil they hate, that's what they find themselves doing. Again and again and again. And they hate themselves for it!
Until there arises such a cry from the depths in their hearts, "O wretched man that I am? Who shall deliver me from the body of this death?"
They feel they are living in a corpse, sin has that great a power over them! I read somewhere once... that's what the Romans used to do to certain prisoners condemned to death: they would bind them to a corpse until that death in the corpse ate into them too, and they died too. Maybe that's what Paul had in mind, writing about the struggle he himself went through. With "the law of sin and death."
Because that's what the law of sin and death is to sinners. It's like a dead corpse we're strapped to. "The body of this death."
But is there any hope? Yes! Yes there is! There is ANOTHER law: "the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus!"
"For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death" (Rom. 8.2).
Can it actually be true? There is a LAW that can work in me, ruling and over-ruling, as powerfully as the law of sin and death once did? And even more powerfully?
YES. It's true!
So I just want to encourage with HOPE those who are tormented to the point of despair because of the hold the law of sin and death has in their lives.
Put on your head for a helmet the HOPE of salvation! JESUS CHRIST HAS BROKEN THAT LAW, broken the power of the law of sin and death, and, just as you were once bound to that "corpse" of sin, can BIND YOU TO HIMSELF, so that the law of LIFE and righteousness that rules and reigns in His own Body now rules in you, and overrules the sin!
Thank you, Jesus!
We are living in a day when multitudes of sincere Christians are struggling with sin like never before! The Devil is fighting flat out! We are deeply in need of a new ministration of Righteousness from the Throne of Grace! I believe it is coming! It is at hand! God is preparing to release greater grace upon His Church in this hour! "That like as sin hath reigned unto death even so might grace REIGN through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord" (Rom. 5.21).
So, don't give up!
FreebyWord, I want to encourage you. After I read your post earlier, I started to pray for you, and just as I started to pray for you, the Presence of the Lord filled my heart! So I know by this that Jesus knows you, and wanted to get a message through to you: that He knows your struggle, loves you, cares for you, and is going to see you through to VICTORY!
Don't give up! "Behold, we count them happy which endure!"
| 2007/5/26 20:13||Profile|
Josef, what was you said was pretty strong. I am familiar with the scriptures you quoted and i agree with you that a person who claims to be a Christian but is only continually and habitually enslaved to sin cannot truly be a Christian.
However i also think you need to be a little careful in some of what you say. I do recognise that my best friend is the person who will speak the most truth to me no matter how hard it is to hear, and if that is you and what you said is what i needed to hear then i thank you for it.
I will certainly pray through what you said Josef, and search my heart before the Lord to see if i really am saved. However i have done that so many times. Josef if i am not saved i dont know how anyone can be saved. In the times when i have been stuggling with sin and even overwhelmed by it i have cired out to the Lord so desperately, i have taken all possible outward steps toward repentance, endeavouring to cut off any links with that sin or cut out any temptation even. Then i have cried out to the Lord that if i am not saved and my sin has proven that- I cry out that He would save me. I know only Christ can save me and set the sinner free. In those times i have desperately wanted to be free from all sin and to be only Christ's and i still desire that now and im fighting to that end, fighting against sin again that had risen up and for a short time overwhelmed me.
Josef and others you still have not answered part of my original thread about those verses that i quoted. I will remind you of them:
"Brethren, if a man is overtaken in any trespass, you who are spiritual restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness, considering yourself lest you also be tempted." Gal 6:1
Also Psalm 40:12 when the usually godly David says:
"For innumerable evils have surrounded me;My iniquities have overtaken me, so that I am not able to look up; They are more than the hairs of my head; Therefore my heart fails me."
Are we to discount this scriptures or does scripture indeed teach that a true believer can be overwhelmed and overtaken by a particular sin for a period, no matter how undesirable that might be?
In my case Josef, i am open to the truth, and if i am really not saved, I pray God that He will show me so i can be saved. But if i am not saved im not sure i know how to be seeing as i have done all i can to repent and then cried to Jesus to save me as only He can and to change my heart as only He can and to be my Lord and my King. If you cannot be saved that way- i know of no other way.
In my case i have not always been overwhelmed by sin. For several years, by the grace of God i have walked in continual victory ( i cannot say i have not sinned in my heart, in that area), but i have been watchful, prayerful, fighting against it and experiencing through Christ's strength a measure of victory over sin that i once thought not possible. It is only recently that i have began to struggle with this sin again and at occasions have been overwhelmed by it and have given in. To wich i feel awful and have sought the Lord for repentance and restoration with tears, but i cant deny i at times did sin willfully and deliberately, knowing what i was doing was wrong but i had allowed the sinful nature to rise up so strong that i seemed to be powerless to resist. So does this mean that i am not a Christian?
Josef, you say that if someone sins willfully after they have received the knowledge of the truth then there no longer remains a sacrifice for their sins and they are dammned. Are you sure you are not misinterpretting that scripture? I mean what Christian can say that they have never sinned against light? Can you say you have never deliberately done something against your conscience and knowledge of the truth since being born again? If that scripture does mean that then do you recommend i give up? And do you recommend that any Christian who has fallen or slidden into sin give up?
I cannot give up, and by the grace of God i will not give up. I know that what i have done to the Lord through my sin is awful and i deserve to be dammned, but i still belive in His mercy and grace and power and so i am still seeking Him for a work of grace in my heart.
I might have lost one or two battles against sin, i admit it, shamefully, but by God;s grace i am determined to win the war!
I will fight sin to the death, knowing that if i dont it will destory me. I will not fight in my own strength but take it to my captain Jesus Christ and we will fight it together.
Because i believe that He is the Lord who 'restores my soul', praise His Name!
| 2007/5/28 7:20||Profile|
Please check your message box...I sent you a PM. Newbies on this forum are often ignorant of this feature...just thought I would help you make aware it exists...
| 2007/5/28 8:13||Profile|
Quote:Do you have any idea what your talking about?
Josef Urban said: If a man knows something is sin, but continues to do it anyway (which is "sinning wilfully".....is not a brother.
Wilfully sin is not your everyday run of the mill sin that is common to man. Wilfully sinning is turning away from thee faith in Jesus Christ and what He has accomplished on the cross, (not of works lest any man should boast) and turning to a works based salvation.
"There remaineth no sacrifice for sin" for "Christ died once for all". Only once has He put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself, to renew them again unto repentance is impossible.
[b]Listen to me saints[/b]: Any believer who is struggling over his sin and he is calling on the name of the LORD for help, IS STILL MY BROTHER!!
"He that calleth upon the name of the LORD shall be saved". The man that smote his breast in the temple came down justified, it doesn't say that his sins were taken away, "Blessed is the man whom the LORD will not impute iniquity".
In Pauls day, many believing Jews were falling away (going back under law for thier salvation), that sin today is no different than then. Any believer who places law as their salvation is NOT a brother, they have fallen from grace.
Quote:Everyone uses this to bash Christians who don't go to a local assembly. This has nothing to do with that. We can assemble ourselves in any place. But what Paul was addressing was that some were falling away, the branches were falling off the vine, they were losing their place in the body of Christ, not in a building, or a place of worship. Let us exhort one another to continue in the faith and not lose heart especially where the day of the LORD is approaching.
Hebrews 10:25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
The real wilfull sin is to deny that Jesus Christ paid for our sins by His blood and using an animal to take away our sins. Thats is the ultimate blasphemy.
| 2007/5/28 8:28|
| Re: What should a Christian do when overtaken by a particular sin?|
You got a lot of excellent advice here. I did not read all of it, so please pardon me if what I am going to say has already been said.
Your concern is healthy for your spiritual well-being. And you mentioned how you did get victory one day while driving. PTL!
When one is bedeviled by a besetting sin, one becomes so desperate you grasp at straws, anything that promises deliverance. You will read anything that instructs you on how to achieve victory. (Been there, done that.) The danger in this is that you will soon become so focused on METHOD instead of a person, namely Jesus Christ. When your eyes are trained on method, you will have victories, but they will be short lived. Then BOOM! you fall again. (Been there, done that.)
In my experience, I wept much, prayed much and when I was at the absolute bottom, deliverance came. But I had to rattle the door, shake it until it just about came off the hinges..."Yes, I did take the kingdom by force!" But it came. And I have been free from its grip ever since. Tempted, yes, but it has lost its hold on me. Big difference. BTW: my besetting sin was evil imagination. I shared my testimony of this experience on this forum. Here is the link to this testimony: http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=15729&forum=35#122468
God bless you in your pursuit of holiness,
| 2007/5/28 8:35||Profile|
Santa Clara, CA
| Careful how you judge|
First, we must realize that a "brother" who is struggling with and dominated by sin to the point where he cannot get free is no brother at all. His intentions may be good, but if he is bound in sin then he will not inherit the Kingdom of God so long as he remains in such a state.
"Struggling" suggests a want of deliverance does it not? Would be very careful about deciding who is or is not a 'brother'. Willful and continual suggests an effort in the opposite direction.
1Co 4:3 But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self.
1Co 4:4 For I know nothing against myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord.
1Co 4:5 Wherefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who will both bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and make manifest the counsels of the hearts; and then shall each man have his praise from God.
| 2007/5/28 10:07||Profile|
Santa Cruz California
| Re: Careful how you judge|
Struggling would indicate a new principle within would it not? After all, was there a struggle to not sin prior to salvation? or did we drink down sin like water with no regard to how it affected God, or if it was in complete rebellion to the one who gave us life?
The struggle is a good indication of a new Being within for the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, not agains the flesh.
Remember Jesus spoke of the wheat and tares, and how they would grow together until the end, and a brother pointed out to me yesterday that immature Christians will look alot like tares at times as both look alike in the growing stages, but when fully grown one can see the difference. Thus we must take heed as Christ said that the Lord of the harvest said, "let them grow together" we will see eventually who is and who is not.
Another point to is that when Jeus spoke about the master of a vineyard, and how he wanted to cut down an unfruitful plant, but there was one who said, "let it alone for the next year, and I will dg around it and fertilize it. Then if there is no fruit, cut it down."(Luke 13:6-9) Do you not see the mercy in that?
Again, when did God ever cast off Israel in the OT? In spite of their continued rebellion He never did. Sure He chastened His people to bring repentance, and restoration, yet He never said, "that's it I am finished with you!" Even after they rejected Christ, God still will save folks from the nation of Israel.
God says that His Servant will not break the bruised reed, neither will He quench the smoking flax. These are great words to ponder when in the slough of despair.
| 2007/5/28 13:10||Profile|
Brethren, if a man is overtaken in any trespass, you who are spiritual restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness, considering yourself lest you also be tempted." Gal 6:1
Dear brother let me give you my humble advice, for i myself have been a backslider and i believe in a worse spiritual condition then you are goin through or have been goin. The Lord has chastinth me many times in the past but i kept goin sinning and living a disobedient life.And whenever i attempted to pray because i regretted my sin i was powerless i could hardly even open my mouth and speak audibly, most of my feeble prayer was almost voiceless.
I was bound by sin to the point that i would very rarely read the bible and whenever i did it was usually for a matter of minnutes.
I was so bound that i would find it very hard to praise God with a song, my heart so hardened by sins that what once was a natural and spontanious thing praising God became the most unfamiliar thing with me. I had forgotten to worship God.
Like David i could wel have sad : "innumerable evils have surrounded me;My iniquities have overtaken me, so that I am not able to look up; They are more than the hairs of my head; Therefore my heart fails me." I feel shame to mention all i did.
But praise God and glory to Jesus God still loved me even though he chastenth me, even though He withdraw his presence from my heart, oh the amazing grace of God, i thought i deserved hell.........everything was hopeless for me great was my fall from grace but greater still are the mercies of God.
Here i am to witness of his amzing love, i repented of my sins, humbled myself in his sight, back to his bossom i came again and his arms were wide open waiting for me to come back, i miss his hug and smile and the time that i spend with Him on the top of the mountains.
Here i am forgiven again of my sins, the Shepherd had not forgotten the straying sheep, even i forgot Him, he still loved me and prayed for me to the father.....oh Jesus how many tears you shed for your wandering sheep, your love conquered me back, you saved me from your wrath and the Father's judgments.
Brother dont struggle with sin but look to Jesus no effort of your soul will get rid of your sin, look to the bleeding Saviour and offer him your 'black' heart and he will wash it and make it white. Look i say again His blood can redeem your soul and set you free, there is power in the blood of the Lamb.
| 2007/5/28 16:18||Profile|
| Re: Overcoming Sin by Praising God with our Mouths|
Thank you brother (Elected); your post helped me immensely because I know it's God's own truth. I've also been to that mountain top you wrote of today. That is why I can't understand my weakness in my walk. I've heard the actual voice of God, known the infilling of His radiant love.
I thank you for your post because it's what God told me a couple weeks ago when I cried out to Him in agony--why, why God can't I overcome; HOW can I overcome. I felt drawn to the Word and I opened to David praising God with the words of his mouth. I had my answer. You know what you're talking about; I know the weakness of not being able to open my mouth to pray. I know you've been where I am and the Lord God had you post to tell me I can overcome.
I pray I will soon post a testimony to the overcoming power of God's own glory and grace in my life. Thank you for caring and taking time to give a testament to your brothers and sisters struggling for a way out of sin.
All glory, and honor and praise to the majesty of our God and King the Lord Jesus Christ.
| 2007/5/28 18:35||Profile|