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pastorfrin
Member



Joined: 2006/1/19
Posts: 1406


 Works'

Brothers and Sisters,

Matthew 16:27
For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

John 5:20
For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.

John 5:36
But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.

John 10:37-38
If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. [38] But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.

John 14:8-12
Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us. [9] Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? [10] Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. [11] Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake. [12] Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

In Matt. 16:23 Jesus says when He returns He will reward every man according to His works.
In John 14:12 He proclaims the kind of works the believer is to do.

We are told by Jesus in:
John 10:37-38
If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. [38] But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.

In light of the teachings of Jesus on works confirming one being in Him can we expect men to believe the words we speak if we cannot say as Jesus said; “believe me for the very works sake”?

Where are these all important works that Jesus says we shall do?
John 14:12 ] Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

Mark 16:20
And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.


1 Cor. 2:4-5
And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power: [5] That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

In there something missing in how we perceive
believe?

In His Love
pastorfrin

 2007/5/25 12:16Profile
InTheLight
Member



Joined: 2003/7/31
Posts: 2736
Phoenix, Arizona USA

 Re: Works'

Quote:
Mark 16:20 And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.



I've been thinking about the miraculous lately. Especially in light of this passage...
And now, Lord, behold their threatenings: and grant unto thy servants, that with all boldness they may speak thy word, [b]By stretching forth thine hand to heal; and that signs and wonders may be done by the name of thy holy child Jesus[/b]. And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness.(Act 4:29-31)

I think if I were in the same situation as those early believers in Acts 4 I would probably pray for protection but these believers didn't appear to be so concerned about themselves but rather about the glory of God. They asked and expected that God would give them boldness and confirm the word with miracles. I think it's time for the church to pray again as they did.

In Christ,

Ron


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Ron Halverson

 2007/5/25 13:51Profile
hmmhmm
Member



Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4991
Sweden

 Re:

Quote:

InTheLight wrote:
I think it's time for the church to pray again as they did.




AMEN


_________________
CHRISTIAN

 2007/5/25 13:53Profile









 Re: Works'

To believe! Nothing more. The problem is we try to read into things, when to us, it's too simple, or, to us, the truth is not doing what we think it should do.

I noticed that nearly all the scriptures you used were from the gospels. Very little of the gospels were written to the church.

The only scripture you used concerning the church was from 1Cor. 2:4-5 and I'm really not sure where your going with this.

 2007/5/25 14:27
JaySaved
Member



Joined: 2005/7/11
Posts: 1131
Kentucky

 Re:

We are saved by grace through faith and not by works. We are saved by grace to do good works which God has prepared for us to do.

Titus 2:11-14 speaks about this:
11For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people, 12training us to renounce ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright, and godly lives in the present age, 13waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, 14who gave himself for us to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people for his own possession who are zealous for good works."

 2007/5/25 14:41Profile
JaySaved
Member



Joined: 2005/7/11
Posts: 1131
Kentucky

 Re:

Quote:
I noticed that nearly all the scriptures you used were from the gospels. Very little of the gospels were written to the church.



They might not have been written specifically to a particular church, but the gospels were written for all believers.

 2007/5/25 14:43Profile
pastorfrin
Member



Joined: 2006/1/19
Posts: 1406


 Re:Works'

Hi Ron,

Are the works we are called to do miracles or simply confirmation that we are in the Son and the Son is in us?
John 14:10-11
[10] Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. [11] Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

Should this not be the norm where the Word is preached by a believer?

In His Love
pastorfrin

 2007/5/25 15:27Profile
running2win
Member



Joined: 2007/5/15
Posts: 231
Bowmansville Penssylvania USA

 Re:

To believe is to believe in such a way that it changes my life so that I cry out "Jesus, because of what you did for me I repent of my sin and will keep your commandments." So it has to be a deep convincing belief, not just an assent to the fact that a certain thing is true.

Quote:
The problem is we try to read into things, when to us, it's too simple, or, to us, the truth is not doing what we think it should do.



Very good. I think this is a common problem, and God spoke to me about it a couple of years ago through this passage:

Quote:
Mark 9:9 And as they came down from the mountain he (Jesus) charged them that they should tell no man what things they had seen, till the Son of man were risen from the dead. 10. And they kept that saying with themselves, questioning one with another what the rising from the dead should mean.



Now that seems really ignorant that they couldn't see that it meant exactly what it said. THE RISING FROM THE DEAD! I don't know of any other way to interpret that ;-)
Well, I found out that I was doind alot the same thing by wondering "what does this mean" or "I wonder what Jesus meant by that". Well, if Jesus said in John 14:12 that we would do greater works than he did because he was going to the Father, I think I can safely deduce that he meant [b]greater works.[/b] So now the question is where are the greater works? Not that we need them to be saved, but as a tool to bring souls to God. Well to be honest with myself I'm not doing the "greater works". I found that I can't just go up and speak with "holy boldness" or heal someone. So I have to conclude that I'm missing something in what God intended christians to be. I don't know what that is exactly but I know the One who does so I'm urgently and desperately seeking Him to restore me to what the disciples were in the book of Acts so that God might get the most amount of glory out of my life.

Oh God make the church what it is meant to be, starting with me!


_________________
Jeff Mollman

 2007/5/25 15:40Profile
InTheLight
Member



Joined: 2003/7/31
Posts: 2736
Phoenix, Arizona USA

 Re:

Quote:
Are the works we are called to do miracles or simply confirmation that we are in the Son and the Son is in us?



I believe the works referred to in the John 14 passage you quoted are miracles. I believe Jesus was saying that they should believe just based upon His word but if that were not enough the miracles would fully convince those of "weak faith". I believe that many times the confirmation of the apostles word was miraculous works with the result of many converted.
So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God. And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.(Mar 16:19-20)

In Christ,

Ron


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Ron Halverson

 2007/5/25 15:44Profile
running2win
Member



Joined: 2007/5/15
Posts: 231
Bowmansville Penssylvania USA

 Re:

Quote:
I believe that many times the confirmation of the apostles word was miraculous works with the result of many converted.



And isn't that exactly what the miracles were for? I definitely believe so.


_________________
Jeff Mollman

 2007/5/25 15:56Profile





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