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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Can men obey God? Are God's Laws Impossible?

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Nile
Member



Joined: 2007/3/28
Posts: 403
Raleigh, NC

 Re:

Quote:
My obedience, before or after the Cross, will not allow me to stand before that Judge with any confidence, whatsoever! How about you?



But...

1 John 3:21
Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence toward God.


_________________
Matthew Miskiewicz

 2007/5/23 21:22Profile
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

Romans 5:18 So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, [b]even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men.[/b] 19 For as through the one man’s disobedience the many were made sinners, even so [b]through the obedience of the One the many will be made righteous.[/b]


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Jimmy H

 2007/5/23 21:44Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
It's just a biblical article. Please, feel free to discuss any of the scriptural points listed in the article brother.


but what if I want to discuss them with YOU? Will you return and answer points that are made or is this to be just another 'finney hand-grenade' lobbed in and abandoned?


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Ron Bailey

 2007/5/24 6:37Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
A child is therefore not accountable for the sins of the father. The whole of mankind is not accountable for the sins of the one man Adam.



This would be 'original guilt' which I personally would not assent to. However 'original condemnation' is a thoroughly Biblical concept.
Rom. 5:16 (ASV) And not as through one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment came of one unto condemnation, but the free gift came of many trespasses unto justification.

Rom. 5:18 (ASV) So then as through one trespass the judgment came unto all men to condemnation; even so through one act of righteousness the free gift came unto all men to justification of life.

Rom. 8:1 (ASV) There is therefore now no condemnation to them that are in Christ Jesus. Please explain what you understand by 'one trespass' culminating in 'condemnation' coming to 'all men'>

[url=http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/words.pl?book=Rom&chapter=8&verse=1&strongs=2631&page=]katakrima[/url] is 'judgement against the accused'.


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Ron Bailey

 2007/5/24 6:48Profile
MikeH
Member



Joined: 2006/9/21
Posts: 116


 Re:

Quote:

Lazarus1719 wrote:
[b]CONCLUSION OF THE WHOLE MATTER[/b]

None can prove, either with reason or with revelation, that men are accountable beyond their ability or beyond their knowledge. If anyone assumes such views, the burden is upon them to try to prove it.

Many legal systems, especially those based on Christian principles, hold that ignorance of the law is no excuse. In fancy legal/latin jargon "Ignorantia juris non excusat" or "Ignorantia legis neminem excusat". If you wish to find the proof look in any basic text book on jurisprudence. Those will provide the proof you need, based on reason.

Mike

 2007/5/24 7:01Profile
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

Geez, I just looked at the article in my print preview. Jesse, if you are actually interested in an actual discussion, why would you post something that is equal to about 20 printed pages worth of material? Honestly, I don't see how you can post this article saying you are interested in discussion. As with all the articles you post on here, they correspond to your newsletters which contain the exact same thing. What exactly is it that you were hoping to discuss?

Aren't you just doing with your articles what you were doing so long with your music-video type things you used to post on here of you street preaching, for which you were forbidden to do? Isn't this just another form of self-promotion, just on a more limited scale?


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Jimmy H

 2007/5/24 9:16Profile
enid
Member



Joined: 2006/5/22
Posts: 2680
Nottingham, England

 Re: Can men obey God? Are God's Laws Impossible?

The original post asked a question, 'Are God's Laws Impossible?'

Luke 1v37, 'For with God nothing will be impossible'

God bless.

 2007/5/24 9:41Profile
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
St. Joseph, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
CONCLUSION OF THE WHOLE MATTER



He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will [u]manifest myself to him[/u]. (John 14:21)

I am trying to reckon with the underlying understanding of the whole of this type of Christianity. Is it the understanding of those who follow Finney that the whole of the Christian life is to discover a law and obey it? Maybe I am just greatly misunderstanding the theology- but it seems like the expression of faith is very lifeless and legalistic law based religion that finds its greatest expression in total compliance to the law of God. Although this seems pious on the surface- it seems to be a very dead approach to God if the intent is not to have genuine fellowship with God through His Holy Spirit.


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Robert Wurtz II

 2007/5/24 11:12Profile
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
St. Joseph, Missouri

 Re: Can men obey God? Are God's Laws Impossible?

Quote:
All sinners voluntarily choose to sin, to abuse their ability; to do what they know is wrong. And therein is the criminality of transgression, the guilt of rebellion, and the justice of eternal damnation.



But this is not the point and I believe Finney missed it. Men need to be born again because, though they are guilty, have the nature of the children of wrath. They could have chosen [u]not[/u] to sin- but their nature is one of rebellion against God. They have the spirit that now works in the children of disobedience. They have to die to Sin through Christ in order to be loosed from it's slavery (Romans 7). This is not just liberty from the Law- but from Sin. If the law is removed so is the legal binding of Sin and sinner. If one is dead to the law- they are dead also to Sin. The binding element is removed.


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Robert Wurtz II

 2007/5/24 11:20Profile
JaySaved
Member



Joined: 2005/7/11
Posts: 1132
Missouri

 Re: Can men obey God? Are God's Laws Impossible?

Quote:
“Does God give commandments which men cannot obey? Is He so arbitrary, so severe, so unloving, as to issue commandments which cannot be obeyed? The answer is that in all of annals of Holy Scripture, not a single instance is recorded of God having commanded any man to do a thing, which was beyond his power. Is God so unjust and so inconsiderate as to require of man that which he is unable to render? To infer is to slander the character of God.” E. M. Bounds *4

(Emphasis mine)

Can God command a man to do something that is impossible for the man to do in his own ability? Ask Lazarus.

 2007/5/24 11:28Profile





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