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coolcap2007
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Joined: 2007/2/22
Posts: 29


 ephesians ch 2

from reading ephesians chapter 2 I have had some questions
1-when it says we were seated with christ in the heavenly realms, does this mean that as believes are seated also at the right hand of god

2-on chapter 2 verse 7 it says that in the coming ages god did this to show his grace in the coming ages...what does this mean? like in what way in the future do we see gods grace from this? is this how we are free from sin and such?

3-what are the gentiles? how did somenoe become jew or gentile in the past and how did you know who was gentile and jew..oh and if you were not a jew then did god not care about anyone

4- it says gentiles were foreigners to the covenants of the promise...what was this convenant to the promise... verse 12

5-verse 14- did the law require that jews and gentiles be seperate? why was there seperation. im confused with all the division and hostility, because it says christ was to bring peace, but how did christ coming bring peace? is it because christ preached about loving everyone?

6-in verse 20 it says we are being built on the foundation of jesus and apostles...does this mean we are the church being built because in verse 22 it says "and in him you too are being built etc." so is this talking about that we are the church being built, like we are the temple, or is it saying that the temple which we live in which is gods body is being built and god is also living in us?



7-

 2007/5/21 18:02Profile
KingJimmy
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Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re: ephesians ch 2

Quote:

1-when it says we were seated with christ in the heavenly realms, does this mean that as believes are seated also at the right hand of god



Yes.

Quote:

2-on chapter 2 verse 7 it says that in the coming ages god did this to show his grace in the coming ages...what does this mean? like in what way in the future do we see gods grace from this? is this how we are free from sin and such?



I guess one could think of it in terms that Christ is going to come again, and descend with heaven from a shout. By doing that, he essentially brings heaven to earth and ushers in the kingdom in its fullness. And that is a great grace indeed!

Quote:

3-what are the gentiles? how did somenoe become jew or gentile in the past and how did you know who was gentile and jew..oh and if you were not a jew then did god not care about anyone



"Gentiles" is a word the children of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob (people of the Jewish race) used to identify those who were not of Jewish descent. "Gentiles" essentially identifies all the other nations.

Quote:

4- it says gentiles were foreigners to the covenants of the promise...what was this convenant to the promise... verse 12



This is in reference to the covenants established through Abraham, Moses, etc.

Quote:

5-verse 14- did the law require that jews and gentiles be seperate? why was there seperation. im confused with all the division and hostility, because it says christ was to bring peace, but how did christ coming bring peace? is it because christ preached about loving everyone?



The law made a distinction between Jew and Gentile because it was with the Jew that God had established the covenants. Part of the reason the law made a distinction between the Jews and Gentiles was to teach us about things such as holiness. Think of it as a sort of object lesson. It should be noted that the law allowed Gentiles to enter into God's covenant with the Jews, however, they were not allowed unlimited participation in all the covenant rites/rituals. With the coming of Christ and the establishment of the new covenant, these things were removed. Thus, "peace" was established.

Quote:

6-in verse 20 it says we are being built on the foundation of jesus and apostles...does this mean we are the church being built because in verse 22 it says "and in him you too are being built etc." so is this talking about that we are the church being built, like we are the temple, or is it saying that the temple which we live in which is gods body is being built and god is also living in us?



Yes, we are the church which is being built. And we as the church are likened to the Old Testament temple, in which God lived.


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Jimmy H

 2007/5/21 19:14Profile
philologos
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Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Great answers, Jimmy. My first thought was this could take a month or two!

One thought that the questions provoked... did you notice that on a couple of occasions Paul refers not to 'covenant' but to 'covenants'?Rom. 9:4 (KJVS) Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenant[u]s[/u], and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;
Eph. 2:12 (KJVS) That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenant[u]s[/u] of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
It is interesting too to note the use of the personal pronoun 'we' in Ephesians and Galatians (and elsewhere) and to ask the question 'who is we?' Is this Paul speaking from his own natural background as a Jew, or as a Christian, or as either at different times?


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Ron Bailey

 2007/5/22 3:25Profile
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

Quote:

did you notice that on a couple of occasions Paul refers not to 'covenant' but to 'covenants'?



Indeed, most people don't notice the plural usage of covenant. I originally was going to refrain from the following comment but thought I'd make it since you mentions this:

The New Covenant itself has been made with the nation of Israel!

(can of worms now opened!)


_________________
Jimmy H

 2007/5/22 6:43Profile









 Re: ephesians chapter 2

philologos suggested

Quote:
ask the question 'who is we?'

Great question. Thank you.

 2007/5/22 7:06
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

Quote:

It is interesting too to note the use of the personal pronoun 'we' in Ephesians and Galatians (and elsewhere) and to ask the question 'who is we?' Is this Paul speaking from his own natural background as a Jew, or as a Christian, or as either at different times?



I think context will determine such :) Off the top of my head: Sometimes Paul uses "we" to talk of the apostolic band he was part of, sometimes he uses it to identify himself with the Jews, sometimes identification with the Church, etc. Did you have any particular verse in mind? You usually do when you ask such questions :)


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Jimmy H

 2007/5/22 9:53Profile
Koheleth
Member



Joined: 2005/11/10
Posts: 530
NC

 Re: ephesians ch 2

Quote:

Quote:

did you notice that on a couple of occasions Paul refers not to 'covenant' but to 'covenants'?



Indeed, most people don't notice the plural usage of covenant. I originally was going to refrain from the following comment but thought I'd make it since you mentions this:

The New Covenant itself has been made with the nation of Israel!

(can of worms now opened!)



Not sure if a can of worms is opened. Of course, Jesus never minded doing so, if the can needed to be opened. However, if it is Bible doctrine, we should be zealous for it. I think I have a sense of what you are getting at. For example, when this "new covenant" is referenced in Jeremiah 31 (for example), it is made "with the house of Israel" and the Gentiles are never mentioned. I have examined this topic some over the years, and there is quite an array of Scripture to take into account. The end of it all is God is so much grander than we comprehend. So, by all means, do go on. If Scripture contains cans of worms, God wants us to get them open.

 2007/5/22 12:18Profile
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

Quote:

If Scripture contains cans of worms, God wants us to get them open.



Well, I avoided it initially because I thought perhaps it would be a distraction from a general overview of Ephesians 2.

Quote:

For example, when this "new covenant" is referenced in Jeremiah 31 (for example), it is made "with the house of Israel" and the Gentiles are never mentioned.



Indeed. For as the Scripture says, it is made with "the house of Israel and the house of Judah." This has great implications, especially regarding the church's identification as being actually part of the nation of Israel, especially for the Gentile.


_________________
Jimmy H

 2007/5/22 13:25Profile
Koheleth
Member



Joined: 2005/11/10
Posts: 530
NC

 Re:

Quote:
Well, I avoided it initially because I thought perhaps it would be a distraction from a general overview of Ephesians 2.



Good point. Maybe a new thread is in order . . . or maybe the Scripture cited is enough to make the point . . .

 2007/5/23 10:45Profile





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