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GraceAlone
Member



Joined: 2006/8/23
Posts: 232
Orlando, Florida

 Once saved always saved- or "the perserverance of God"

Ok- once again... The bible teaches that when God saves a man THAT MAN WILL BE SAVED in the last day- otherwise that man was never saved.


1 John 3:6 "Whoever (unrepentantly bathes in) sins has neither seen Him nor known Him."




1 Peter 1:4, 5 "4 to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time."

John 3:16 "that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."

John 3:36 "He who believes in the Son has everlasting life;"

John 5:24 "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life."

1 John 5:13 "These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life,[a] and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God."

John 6:39 "This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day."

John 10:28-29 "28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand."

Eph 1:13, 14 "having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,"

Phil 1:6 "6 being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ;"

Romans 6:14 "14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace."

Phil 2:13 "for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure."

1 John 2:19 "19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us."

Romans 8:38-39 "38 For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, 39 nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord."




Let me explain...



Philippians 1:6
"being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ" IT IS CHRIST WHO BEGAN.

Phil 2:12-13 "Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; 13 for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure." IT IS GOD WHO WORKS.


1 John 2:19
"They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us." All who have ever fallen away(permanently) were never saved in the first place.


******If you are TRULY saved(justified) you will continue being saved(sanctified) and will finally be saved(glorified).

_______________________________________________
1 John Cpts 2 & 3

"3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, "I know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked."


"4 Whoever commits(pratices) sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. 5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.
7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God."
________________________________________________

God hates sin and somebody who loves sin consequently hates God and is lost. If you are saved you will strive to be holy.

1 Peter 1:16
"because it is written, "Be holy, for I am holy.""

Hebrews 10:29
Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace?

A real conversion is when somebody REPENTS of all thier sin (by the power of God). Turns away from all of it and experiences a radicaly changed life in love for God. If they don't perservere they were not saints. If somebody lives in and practices sin, they are lost.

Its not that by your works you are saved but if you are saved you have works! Otherwise you have a dead faith!

James 2:20
"But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?"

James 2:26
"For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also."


"Once saved always saved" This phrase is devastating to people who twist things to thier own destruction. The question really is...

2 Corinthians 13:5
"Examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Do you not know yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you are disqualified."

2 Peter 1:10
"Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble"

WERE YOU SAVED? DID YOU REALLY CHANGE? ARE YOU LIVING IN SIN? DO YOU PRACTICE UNRIGHTEOUSNESS? HAVE YOU BEEN SAVED?????

Repent, believe, have faith in God, trust Christ's sacrifice, be "Born Again" (or regenerated), follow Christ, obey God, love God, know God, seek God, fear God all the days of your life. Do all these things with all your heart, mind, soul and strength. Salvation is by Grace, through faith, in Christ Alone. Be converted! (Provided by God)
________________________________________________
John 10:29
Romans 8:38-39
Ephesians 1:13-14

"Unless I am convinced by Scripture and by plain reason and not by Popes and councils who have so often contradicted themselves, my conscience is captive to the word of God. To go against conscience is neither right nor safe. I cannot and I will not recant. Here I stand. I can do no other. God help me." -Martin Luther


_________________
Kristy

 2007/5/14 20:17Profile
GraceAlone
Member



Joined: 2006/8/23
Posts: 232
Orlando, Florida

 Re: Once saved always saved- or "the perserverance of God"

I'd like some biblical responses to these scriptures- If any one could explain

1 John 3:6 "Whoever (unrepentantly bathes in) sins has neither seen Him nor known Him."


I'd like to hear a response. Otherwise, the scriptures are clear.


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Kristy

 2007/5/15 11:34Profile
Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re: Once saved always saved- or "the perserverance of God"

Quote:

GraceAlone wrote:
I'd like some biblical responses to these scriptures- If any one could explain


[b]1Peter 1:4-5[/b] [color=990000]to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who are [u]kept by the power of God [b]through faith[/b][/u] for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.[/color]
Thpower of God is through faith, so if one is decieved to believ a lie to destroythe faith, one might fall.

[b]John 3:16[/b] [color=990000]"that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."[/color]
What is everlasting life?
[b]John 17:3[/b] [color=990000]And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. [/color]
If one listens to preaching "another Gosple" with a difrent Chrsit, one may fall.

[b]John 3:36[/b] [color=990000]"He who believes in the Son has everlasting life;"[/color]
If one may go to a coledge and get indoctrinated to atheism and stop believeing, one might fall.

[b]John 5:24[/b] [color=990000]"Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life."[/color]
One might hear anothger goisple and belive it and not have everlasting life.

I could go on, but it is about being decieved, that is how one falls from grace.
It's not about how much sin one does to loose salvation, but what one believes.

 2007/5/15 19:14Profile
tjservant
Member



Joined: 2006/8/25
Posts: 1658
Indiana USA

 Re: Once saved always saved- or "the perserverance of God"

There sure are a lot of preachers that disagree with this. Zac Poonen has said he never understood how someone could believe in OSAS when there are so many scriptures that contradict it.

Before you ask…I’m not sure which messages he says this in…but it’s more than one.


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TJ

 2007/5/15 19:56Profile
HomeFree89
Member



Joined: 2007/1/21
Posts: 797
Indiana

 Re:

Quote:

tjservant wrote:
There sure are a lot of preachers that disagree with this. Zac Poonen has said he never understood how someone could believe in OSAS when there are so many scriptures that contradict it.

Before you ask…I’m not sure which messages he says this in…but it’s more than one.




There are a lot, but right now I'm not sure were they are. ;-) Check out verses about losing first love, enduring to the end, etc.

All I can say is that it sure seems that you can fall away from God and that it's really up to us, because why would we be told to endure to the end if we couldn't fall away from God?

Jordan


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Jordan

 2007/5/15 20:08Profile
Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

This is the scaryest warning I know of:
[b]Matthew 24:24[/b] [color=990000]For false christs and false prophets will rise up. And they will give great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect.[/color]

The question is, if they are elect, what are they doing being lead astray?

 2007/5/15 21:15Profile









 Re:

Quote:

Logic wrote:
This is the scaryest warning I know of:
[b]Matthew 24:24[/b] [color=990000]For false christs and false prophets will rise up. And they will give great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect.[/color]

The question is, if they are elect, what are they doing being lead astray?



Indeed. Aren't the elect supposed to be those who are well read in the scriptures??

Here is one of the reasons:

1 Corinthians 11:28-29 (NASB) 11: But a man must examine himself, and in so doing he is to eat of the bread and drink of the cup. For he who eats and drinks, eats and drinks judgment to himself if he does not judge the body rightly.

 2007/5/16 3:43
lightwalker
Member



Joined: 2007/4/27
Posts: 52
Missouri

 Re:

Have you ever thought that what one belives is what one does? That to believe with the intellect is not to truly believe? The scripture says the devils believe and tremble. What we believe is what we do. That is why Jesus says we shall know them by their fruit. He meant the fruits of the Spirit given in Gal 5. Also to show the difference we are given the works of the flesh just before this.
In Romans chapter 8 we are told that if we live according to the flesh we shall die,but if by the Spirit we do put to death the works of the flesh we shall live. So if we truly believe in Christ we are born of His Spirit and the Spirit of Christ is the revealer of the true path. We cannot be decieved unless we wish to be. Of course we do grow and it is a process but when we are decieved it is usually because we want to leave room for the flesh, to fulfill the lusts thereof.


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Melody

 2007/5/16 6:30Profile
JaySaved
Member



Joined: 2005/7/11
Posts: 1131
Kentucky

 Re:

This is my opinion, take it for what it is worth.

I believe that the rejection of the doctrine of the Perseverance of the Saints is a consequence of our unbelief in the awesome power of the gospel of Christ.

Look at these verses:
Romans 14:4, "Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand."

Philippians 1:6, "And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ."

Jude 1:24, "Now to him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you blameless before the presence of his glory with great joy,"

There are countless others. When we loose sight of the power of the gospel and the regenerating work of the Holy Spirit in a person's life, we are left with the hope that a person will not fall away.

Ray Comfort in his famous 'Hell's Best Kept Secret' sermon said one day that David Wilkerson called him and said, 'I thought I was the only one who hated 'follow-up'. Follow-up is when you take workers in the harvest field and have them go out to make sure the new believers are truly following God. He believes in nurturing a new believer and discipling the new believer...but follow-up to make sure they are truly following God? How pathetic!

The reason so many people 'fall away' is because they never 'fell in' in the first place.

 2007/5/16 9:26Profile
GraceAlone
Member



Joined: 2006/8/23
Posts: 232
Orlando, Florida

 Re:

Amen JaySaved :)


Belief is more than just an agreement to a list of facts. Its trust in Christ unto salvation.

Point is if a man is truly a believer then he will believe the rest of His life.

If somebody falls from the faith (starts living in sin) they were never a christian. (or more clearly "they never truly believed")

3 John 3:11 Beloved, do not imitate what is evil, but what is good. He who does good is of God, but he who does evil has not seen God.

1 John 3:6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever (unrepentantly practices) sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.


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Kristy

 2007/5/16 15:04Profile





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