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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Long hair on men

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philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
Context is at the very heart of gospel truth and errancy. If you want to burden your congregation with new laws, created by Paul's suggestions to a church deep in the Roman Empire... you might as well burden them with the 600+ laws from the Old Testament, too.


1 Corinthians begins by showing the context that Paul was conscious of writing into...“Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:” (1Corinthians 1:2 KJVS)This letter is written to 'all that in every place call upon the name of the Jesus Christ our Lord'.

What Paul wrote to the Corinthians is God's word to all the churches.“But as God hath distributed to every man, as the Lord hath called every one, so let him walk. And so ordain I in all churches.” (1Corinthians 7:17 KJVS)

Quote:
I'm not suggesting that. I'm saying we ought to do what Jesus taught us and preach the gospel, not the epistles.


Are you saying that the gospel does not include the epistles?


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2007/5/14 17:47Profile









 Re:

philologis said

Quote:
Are you saying that the gospel does not include the epistles?



There are four gospels. So no, the epistles are not included when one uses the word "gospel". edit: Nor did the apostles have use of any other literary works other than the Gospel and the Old Testament.

The writers of the epistles preached the gospels. When the churches fell out of line, the apostles wrote thoughtful suggestions to help those churches along. Those "suggestions" are not laws nor should they be considered the same level as the Gospel - being the opinions of men, not the commandments of God.

Revelation is a "thus saith the LORD" text. It's explicitely prophetic.

Quote:
This letter is written to 'all that in every place call upon the name of the Jesus Christ our Lord'.



No, this letter is written "[b]to[/b] them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, [b]with[/b] all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:” (I COR 1:2)

Quote:
What Paul wrote to the Corinthians is God's word to all the churches.

“But as God hath distributed to every man, as the Lord hath called every one, so let him walk. And so ordain I in all churches.” (1Corinthians 7:17 KJVS)



"And so ordain I in all churches.” (I COR 7:17 KJV)

"And so I direct in all the churches." (I COR 7:17 NASB)

"This is the guideline I use in every church." (I COR 7:17 GWT)

edit: it's not "God's word to all the churches" - that was spoken on Mount Sinai and again when Jesus preached the Sermon on the Mount.

 2007/5/14 18:15
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
St. Joseph, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
The significance of this is that the 'hair' is being regarded as an ornament rather than as a physiological fact.



I heard it preached once that Absalom's long hair was the 'symbol' of [i]his[/i] rebellion. Not all men are in rebellion. Personally I am indifferent to hair length. But as with other topic's such as tattoos' piercings, etc. I think it is important to discern 'why' we may do these things. If it is strictly out of preference- I think we are OK. But if the thing is really a symbol of some rebellion we have we need to deal with the rebellion and the rest will fall in place.


_________________
Robert Wurtz II

 2007/5/14 18:22Profile
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
St. Joseph, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
The writers of the epistles preached the gospels. When the churches fell out of line, the apostles wrote thoughtful suggestions to help those churches along. Those "suggestions" are not laws nor should they be considered the same level as the Gospel - being the opinions of men, not the commandments of God.



2 Tim 3:16-17

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.(KJV)

The whole of the scripture from Genesis to Revelation is God breathed. It is all equally inspired. The author is the Holy Spirit in all cases. The epistles were not the opinions of men- they were writings that carried the same weight as the rest of the scriptures.


_________________
Robert Wurtz II

 2007/5/14 18:25Profile
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
St. Joseph, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
dit: it's not "God's word to all the churches" - that was spoken on Mount Sinai and again when Jesus preached the Sermon on the Mount.



Are you sure you don't want to rethink this view? :-?


_________________
Robert Wurtz II

 2007/5/14 18:27Profile









 Re: i have long hair

I haven't got to the end of this thread yet, but had to comment thus far!

I wonder if part of what Paul said about hair was that Christians should have a good witness before the world. In that sense, hair length is cultural. I recognise the danger of re-interpreting Scripture to suit ourselves, but there is also a danger of seeing the issue out of its original context.

Not that Paul was concerned about what the world thought, but if Christians don't dress and behave in a modest and seemly way it is a bad witness.

And, unlike moral standards, (where the issue is one of plain right or wrong, whatever the world thinks or does), what is "modest" and "seemly" varies with culture.

When Paul talks about a woman having a shaved head as being shameful he might have been thinking of the practice of shaving the head of a convicted prostitute (or did a prostitute shave or crop her own hair? read about this somewhere but can't remember). A decent, modest man wouldn't primp and curl his hair, or tie it in a fancy, womanish style. And a decent modest woman would grow her hair, and cover it when she went out anywhere.

Doing anything else would cause offence (especially perhaps to the Jewish communities) and be a shame to the Church, because it would send out very wrong signals.

In our day and culture we have different views of what is decent and modest. As a Christian I wouldn't wear very short skirts, even if I was young enough and slim enough to look good in one. But, as with hair, how short is short? In some eras in our own culture, a glimpse of a girl's ankle was considered provocative! In some cultures these days (especially Muslim, or orthodox Jewish?), it is considered immodest for a woman not to have long skirts, and cover at least her head and upper arms, or even to walk around alone, without a male escort. To visit these countries without respecting their culture by dressing appropriately (I would however draw the line at a burka!) would be to destroy our Christian witness in their eyes!

Jeannette

 2007/5/14 19:28









 Re: i have long hair

Quote:

IRONMAN wrote:
brethren
greetings in Christ's name by whose blood we are justified and reconciled to the Father. AMEN.

the scipture cited at the beginning of this discussion makes mention of nature showing that it is unseemly that a man/male have long hair and Paul is right. However if we observe the animal kingdom, there is one animal in which the male is recognized by his long hair, that being the lion. The lion is one of the 4 faces of the cherubim and is also associated with our Lord in the title "Lion of the Tribe of Judah"

this is not a defense but a testimony of why i have long hair. by the way i am black so it is in the form of dreadlocks. The first time i grew my hair out this way was at our Lord's instruction. in the time i would sit and twist each lock, HE would minister to me because i was always busy with one thing or another while in school. Then my parents complained because the didn't understand why i grew my hair out. at that time, our Lord had me cut my hair to honour them. for 2 years or so i had my hair short and then again i was instructed to grow it back. Most people assume that my hair is some sort of decoration or ornamentation (which i suppose to some degree it is) but it is something more than that. it is a part of what i am and who i am as much as any other attribute of me which God has made.

the tendancy i've noticed with people is to assume i am some sort of hooligan and so they are surprised when they see i am a child of God, husband and father, a working man etc. This flies in the face of men's wrong perceptions and it is a hard thing for men to reckon with being wrong i'm finding. a reason which God showed me not to cut my hair ws because of this very thing, if i did, then men could continue thinking wrongly rather than repent. This is a microcosm of something which is inherent in man, a spirit of "i'm right always" which is by defaul in opposition to God and needs to be confronted. When i consider my hair i see it in light of this and so it ceases to be an ornament but is a reminder of this battle and more than that also, it testifies to my being in the midst of it.

Ironman, what a great testimony! there's a young man in the church where I am who has dreadlocks. He's white though, and looks like someone from "Pirates of the Carribean". At first glance he may seem a bit "way out" but you only have to look into his eyes to see Christ there.

Did you think of yourself as a "Nazarite" when you first felt the Lord showing you to grow your hair?

Of course, with Afro hair, unlesss you let it become dreadlocks, it has to be kept short or straightened. So women who have little time or money for fashion often have their heads cropped close or shaved. In that case it's, I suppose, more a sign of modesty, or lack of vanity, for a woman to have short hair. Except for dreadlocks, long Afro hair means hours at the hairdresser's having it straightened, styled and braided.

In Him

Jeannette

 2007/5/14 19:41









 Re:

Quote:
Paul was advising what he thought best for a church fresh out of Diana pagan worship in the heart of the empire. [b]He was not a prophet[/b].

Paul was not a Prophet? Whoa..The word tells a different story on Pauls position [url=http://www.zhubert.com/word?root=%CF%80%CF%81%CE%BF%CF%86%E1%BD%B5%CF%84%CE%B7%CF%82]HERE[/url]

 2007/5/14 19:53









 Re:

RobertW said

Quote:
2 Tim 3:16-17

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.



Sure. And I agree. But we have to remember the context in which this was written - ie, that the "scripture" he cites is the Old Testament and the Gospel and [b]not[/b] the epistles (since they were just being written).

Quote:
The whole of the scripture from Genesis to Revelation is God breathed. It is all equally inspired. The author is the Holy Spirit in all cases. The epistles were not the opinions of men- they were writings that carried the same weight as the rest of the scriptures.



Are you sure? Because Paul seems to state in I COR that he's voicing his opinion...

"But to the rest speak I, not the Lord... (I COR 7:12)

"I 'suppose' therefore that this is good for the 'present distress'... (I COR 7:26)

"But she is happier if she so abide, after 'my judgement'... and 'I think also' that I have the Spirit of God." (I COR 7:40)

Quote:
Are you sure you don't want to rethink this view?



Sure I do. I've rethunk it over and over - and I probably will for years.

 2007/5/14 20:04









 Re:

Compliments, that page made absolutely no sense to me.

What are you trying to point out to me. And is it available in English?

 2007/5/14 20:11





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