SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Image Map
Discussion Forum : General Topics : Jews Against Zionism

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 )
PosterThread
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Katz

Quote:
Are his books in print as well? If I get on with this one I may try to get something of his in print sometime. Reading off a computer screen is a bit of a strain after a while.



Hi Sister, yes! Both! You might have to do some digging around the site there, I don't recall if there is a place for ordering. They should be available through some of the mainstream places I would imagine.


Understand about the online reading ... I guess I have gotten somewhat used to it in many ways, still prefer something a bit more ... mobile though :)


_________________
Mike Balog

 2007/5/31 15:55Profile









 Re:

Hi again Linn

Just a couple of answers to your last post, (don't know when I'll get around to the others!

Dorcas wrote:

Quote:
If you are able, please explain how physical Israel - separate from Christ - qualify to inherit the physical promise made to Abraham?

Spiritual people inherit the spiritual promise; physical people inherit the physical promise. Even though the physical promise was also given to Abraham, he himself didn’t inherit it (he only wandered around in it, as a sojourner). But he was enabled by faith to transcend the physical and believe in and inherit the spiritual promise.

But this [u]in no way denies the existence and fulfilment of the physical aspect[/u]. I don’t understand why you think it does!

Abraham was only a sojourner in the physical land, but he fully entered into the spiritual promise, first by faith, then in fulfilment. As Jesus said “Abraham rejoiced to see my day, and he saw it and was glad”.

Quote:
This is why (imo) the literal inclusion of known gentiles or previously excluded descendents of Abraham - Christians of all kinds of natural descent including Asians and Arabs (and no doubt many other ethnic groups) - in 'the Church', is the only way to make sense of 'one fold and one Shepherd'. (John 10)

This refers to “spiritual Israel” only. How can this deny the lesser promise to natural Israel?
Quote:
Contrary to some, who believe that 'The Lord is my Shepherd' is an Old Testament concept, I believe Jesus brought it right into the New Covenant by referring to Himself as the good Shepherd. He is very specific about who are sheep, and they are known of Him and He of them.

How then, can anyone who does not know His voice, be a partaker in the promise of receiving 'the land'?


How can they not, if God says so! You still seem to be mixing two different things as if they are one.
Quote:
The question goes hand in hand with Moses' statements and song in Deuteronomy 31 and 32. So where is the promise of a third (time of) entering into 'the land'?


The promise was that the Land was given, [i]permanently[/i], (at least as far as we can understand permanency) to a certain group of people. Who exactly they are, or whether it is a first, second, third etc entering in isn’t the point.

Again I say, [i][b]God always keeps his Word[/b][/i]. To focus on the people, who they are and if they are saved or not, is in some sense missing the point.

Love in Him

Jeannette


 2007/5/31 16:07









 Re: Katz

Quote:

crsschk wrote:
Quote:
Are his books in print as well? If I get on with this one I may try to get something of his in print sometime. Reading off a computer screen is a bit of a strain after a while.



Hi Sister, yes! Both! You might have to do some digging around the site there, I don't recall if there is a place for ordering. They should be available through some of the mainstream places I would imagine.


Understand about the online reading ... I guess I have gotten somewhat used to it in many ways, still prefer something a bit more ... mobile though :)

Thanks again.

I've just copied and pasted the whole book into Word for easier reference (phew!) It's possible then to highlight and annotate if liked, to help remember key points.

In Him

Jeannette

 2007/5/31 16:25









 Re: Jews against Zionism

LittleGift said

Quote:
To focus on the people, who they are and if they are saved or not, is in some sense missing the point.

Obviously, I don't believe it is missing the point, because the original promises were always conditional.

I don't see how you can separate the promise of the land which was conditional on obedience, from the fulfilment of all scripture referring to Christ, as if His physical desendence from David is of no import. This is why Peter turns to David's own words in Acts 2.... [i]because[/i] His kingdom, Peter now realised, was not 'of this world'.

 2007/5/31 16:32









 Re:

Quote:

dorcas wrote:
LittleGift said
Quote:
To focus on the people, who they are and if they are saved or not, is in some sense missing the point.

Obviously, I don't believe it is missing the point, because the original promises were always conditional.

What specific conditions did God give to Abraham re the land? I honestly can't remember any at the moment.

[EDIT, additions to post here]*
Quote:
I don't see how you can separate the promise of the land which was conditional on obedience, from the fulfilment of all scripture referring to Christ, as if His physical desendence from David is of no import. This is why Peter turns to David's own words in Acts 2.... because His kingdom, Peter now realised, was not 'of this world'

Sorry, I don't know what you mean by this, or what makes you think I'm "separating the promise of the land ...from the fulfilment of all scripture referring to Christ" :-?

I was talking of the spiritual as being different from the material or physical, and saying that [i]both[/i] are valid, not the spiritual only.*

[Edit]**another addition! I thought you were missing the point because to me the main point is, as said before, that [i][b]God always keeps his Word[/b][/i] **

In Him

Jeannette

 2007/5/31 19:05









 Re:

Acts 1:6&7 Jesus was asked about restoring the earthly Kingdom to Israel. When? Jesus didn't say that the Church had replaced those promises, but says, *It is not for anyone to know the time (only the Father knows).
When Jesus said, My Kingdom is not of this world, He was not talking about the Earthly Kingdom reign of Christ when He takes the throne of David. The Kingdom not of this world would never need to be restored to begin with.

In the OT there are two comings of Messiah, one of King and one of redeemer. The Jews who missed the mark were looking for the Earthly Kingdom and KING, rejecting Jesus Christ, redeemer...the Lamb of God, who came in all humility, the suffering servant, taking our sin upon Him. A King could not ahve done that.

When He comes again with His Saints, the Church,now called out with a Heavenly Calling, conforming us to His Image, will reign and rule with Christ for 1000 years when He will come in ALL HIS GLORY. :-)

 2007/5/31 20:00









 Re: Discovery in Hebrews 11 I'm so excited!

No time to share this now, but I was reading Heb 11 this morning, and suddenly saw a whole new angle! Not only showing where Linn (Dorcas) and others are probably coming from but how the physical and spiritual aspects of the Promise to Abraham tie together!

Will get back later, but just had to bump up this thread ready.

Of course you may not get it (as I didn't until now).

Clue, the word "Jerusalem" means "twin city of peace"


WATCH THIS SPACE!


Jeannette

 2007/6/2 5:39









 Re: Jews against Zionism


Hi Jeanette,

I thought you would like to know that I don't have a problem with Jerusalem being part of the fulfilment of prophecy.

My difficulty is with the hope maintained by some, that the old boundaries given to Abraham or Joshua, should be redrawn, and 'Jews' - whether believing or not - contained therein.

 2007/6/2 5:44









 Re:

Quote:

dorcas wrote:

Hi Jeanette,

I thought you would like to know that I don't have a problem with Jerusalem being part of the fulfilment of prophecy.

My difficulty is with the hope maintained by some, that the old boundaries given to Abraham or Joshua, should be redrawn, and 'Jews' - whether believing or not - contained therein.

But the "boundaries given to Abraham or Joshua" [u][b]are[/b][/u] a part of the fulfillment of prophecy, just as much as Jerusalem!

Anyway, have to go!

More anon as they say

Jeannette

 2007/6/2 6:02









 Re: Jews against Zionism


Hi Jeanette,

I've just been looking for references to 'the everlasting covenant', and since Young sticks rigidly to the definite and indefinite article ('the' and 'a' or 'an') I thought I'd look him up first. Fascinating!

He uses the phrase 'age-during' for 'everlasting' and it comes after, not before 'covenant'.

The earliest mention of [u]the[/u] covenant is Genesis 9, and it is with man and all flesh on the earth. Before you read it, do a search in a NKJV or KJV for 'the covenant'.... [i]then[/i] look up Genesis 9, please.


I posted in another old thread called 'Israel' in News and Current Events, today, with something the Lord showed me in Hebrews, sparked by my recent reading of Galatians, to see what Paul had to say about the promise to Abraham.


I'll be interested to hear your thoughts, if you find time to read these references. I know you are busy, and I am too right now, but I hope we will continue to study this and share our findings with each other.

I know I haven't shared mine on these points, but I'll be happy to do so first, if you prefer.

 2007/6/9 15:14





©2002-2020 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Affiliate Disclosure | Privacy Policy