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Discussion Forum : General Topics : The World in the Church

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"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11

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 The World in the Church

[b]Crowd Surfing[/b]
http://www.godtube.com/view_video.php?viewkey=9ff5afeaec72d54436fc

"If you try and win the world by being like the world, the world will win you!" - Keith Daniel

And sadly it has in many contemprary evangelical circles. We need to forsake this lukewarm, worldly christianity and embrace the genuine article. Contemprary christian music has played a large part in the major downfall of the modern church.


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2007/5/11 21:01Profile
tjservant
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Joined: 2006/8/25
Posts: 1658
Indiana USA

 Re: The World in the Church

Quote:
Contemprary christian music has played a large part in the major downfall of the modern church.



It’s very sad that so many people believe that if it has a “Christian” label…it’s Christian. This is not a Biblical way to think at all. “Family safe” is the other one that really gets me.

I personally do not have cable or satellite, but when I visit my parents I will see some of the most shocking things ever, and this is just while walking past the TV room…and they have Sky Angel!

)Sky Angel is “Family Safe/Christian” satellite)

You are very right Greg. This type of activity so troubles me, many are terribly deceived.

I wonder what type of devotion or sermon followed.


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TJ

 2007/5/11 21:23Profile
HopePurifies
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Joined: 2007/4/12
Posts: 181
Georgia, USA

 Re: The World in the Church

I agree so much with both of you. I read two very nice articles by Tozer about it. In one he compared this to the golden calf...

"It is now common practice in most evangelical churches to offer the people, especially the young people, a maximum of entertainment and a minimum of serious instruction. It is scarcely possible in most places to get anyone to attend a meeting where the only attraction is God. One can only conclude that God's professed children are bored with Him, for they must be wooed to meeting with a stick of striped candy in the form of religious movies, games and refreshments.

This has influenced the whole pattern of church life, and even brought into being a new type of church architecture, designed to house the golden calf.

So we have the strange anomaly of orthodoxy in creed and heterodoxy in practice. The striped-candy technique has been so fully integrated into our present religious thinking that it is simply taken for granted. Its victims never dream that it is not a part of the teachings of Christ and His apostles.

Any objection to the carryings on of our present golden-calf Christianity is met with the triumphant reply, "But we are winning them!" And winning them to what? To true discipleship? To cross-carrying? To self-denial? To separation from the world? To crucifixion of the flesh? To holy living? To nobility of character? To a despising of the world's treasures? To hard self-discipline? To love for God? To total committal to Christ? Of course the answer to all these questions is no." -Religious Boredom by Tozer

This was the other article which is even cooler.
http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/articles/index.php?view=article&aid=161


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Melanie

 2007/5/11 21:33Profile
rlh
Member



Joined: 2007/4/2
Posts: 30
oklahoma

 Re:

Those articles by tozer really say it all. I have often struggled with "this mess" in my mind and prayers. We have a large youth group at our church and some think that this contempory thing is the only thing that will attract the kids. I have come to disagree but as of now am just a lone voice in the wilderness. I feel/know what really attracts people is the Holy spirit. To often though churches seem to major in the minors and minor in the majors (confession,repentance,holiness) Sadly I'm afraid that it is more about the "form of Godliness" without the content! These are serious times and I fear lest a whole generation(s) of young people lose thier soul in false easy believeism. In prayer.


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rick H.

 2007/5/11 22:07Profile
sermonindex
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Joined: 2002/12/11
Posts: 36693
"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11

Online!
 Re:

Quote:
"It is now common practice in most evangelical churches to offer the people, especially the young people, a maximum of entertainment and a minimum of serious instruction. It is scarcely possible in most places to get anyone to attend a meeting where the only attraction is God. One can only conclude that God's professed children are bored with Him, for they must be wooed to meeting with a stick of striped candy in the form of religious movies, games and refreshments.

This has influenced the whole pattern of church life, and even brought into being a new type of church architecture, designed to house the golden calf.

So we have the strange anomaly of orthodoxy in creed and heterodoxy in practice. The striped-candy technique has been so fully integrated into our present religious thinking that it is simply taken for granted. Its victims never dream that it is not a part of the teachings of Christ and His apostles.

Any objection to the carryings on of our present golden-calf Christianity is met with the triumphant reply, "But we are winning them!" And winning them to what? To true discipleship? To cross-carrying? To self-denial? To separation from the world? To crucifixion of the flesh? To holy living? To nobility of character? To a despising of the world's treasures? To hard self-discipline? To love for God? To total committal to Christ? Of course the answer to all these questions is no."


Oh how true this is! may we weep over this condition in the church.


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2007/5/11 22:26Profile
daniel-
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Joined: 2005/8/25
Posts: 130
Germany

 Re:

Hello,

i watched the video, and i perfectly understand your concerns.
But...i don't know.
You know, i have been to brazil for the last 3 months and have experienced church life here.
One could say that there is a little "revival" going on here.
At least, the church I am visiting is growing every day and the Pastor(s) are preaching holiness and radical living.
It is not counterfeit, even though I do have some little concerns with some teachings, but these are minor things.

So, I have come to realize that the people here are different. They listen to different music, have different pasttimes and have a different style of clothing.

They do not sing hymns, they don't even know hymns. Often the worship is loud and people are jumping like in that video.
I was asking god about this...and on my way to being judgmental I believe he showed me that I cannot judge according to STYLE.
I cannot judge according to outward appereance.

As i said, i perfectly understand your concerns and with most things I agree, but if i would show you a video from the church here in brazil, you would propably think the same.
But I can assure you that people here are being won for true discipleship, cross carrying holy living and truly loving god.....even though their outward way of worshipping god, their mentality and their style may offend our perception of "holiness".

I hope I was able to put my thoughts into right english :)

just my 2 cents..




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Daniel Sahm

 2007/5/11 23:21Profile
tjservant
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Joined: 2006/8/25
Posts: 1658
Indiana USA

 Re:

[url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=16783&forum=34]Be Ye Separate - J.C. Ryle[/url]

This may bring a bit of understanding to why some are so discouraged by what was shown in that video


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TJ

 2007/5/11 23:30Profile
Tears_of_joy
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Joined: 2003/10/30
Posts: 1554


 Re: The World in the Church

Quote:
"If you try and win the world by being like the world, the world will win you!" - Keith Daniel


This quote is taken from the sermon [url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=1865]Finished with the world[/url] which is 'must hear' on this subject.

 2007/5/11 23:53Profile
repentcanada
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Joined: 2005/5/9
Posts: 659


 Re: The World in the Church

I scanned godtube.com, much of the stuff on there is grievous

 2007/5/12 4:30Profile
HopePurifies
Member



Joined: 2007/4/12
Posts: 181
Georgia, USA

 Re:

Hey -daniel

In the Middle and South Americas, you guys do have a very party-like, loud atmosphere. In Africa, they have dances in their worship.

There is probably a place for this. Even Jewish music gets pretty bouncy and has a dance that goes with it. And baptists sometimes do clap, hehe.

However, it seems that worship is being made a time to have fun, apart from the joy that God gives you Himself. Those people hopping aren't hopping because of God, they are hopping because of the drums and because thats what secular people do when they listen to this music. It isn't impossible to want to hop for God, but if we are honest with ourselves we know that isn't what is happening here.

No matter what culture you're in, there should be something like hymns, I think. In America, everybody hates hymns. I love hymns. Why do I love hymns? Because the barely adorned music leads me to contemplate my Savior only, and I am not distracted by a bunch of other clamoring instruments and voices. The lyrics are God-centered and much more edifying than the CCM that the rest of America listens to. And the reason I love hymns, are the reason they don't.

But should Brazil and Africa have the very same hymns we do? I don't think so at all. Different cultures have different reactions to beats. I read in a research paper that when missionaries first went to Africa they thought the music was offbeat, but it turned out it was just a complex pattern. Different cultures will want different instruments. And every culture has a way to do the baptist "clap".

But the point is, a time of worship should always have a solemn, contemplative, edifying (we should hear every word!), beautiful section. And when you go to rejoice, and more upbeat music, there must still be humility humility humility. So thats really what we're getting at here. It isn't about style, its about attitude. And it may be strange to the culture you're in but it honors God.

Those are my thoughts... :-)


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Melanie

 2007/5/12 11:24Profile





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