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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Question on Romans 11

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JaySaved
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Joined: 2005/7/11
Posts: 1131
Kentucky

 Re:

We are in agreement that the unsaved Jew is just as lost as an unsaved gentile.

 2007/5/12 18:44Profile









 Re:

Quote:
They can't. The very fact that they are cut off proves that they were not elect.





How can you say they can't when Paul says they can.

Paul is speaking to believers:

Notice verses 19-20

19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in.” 20 Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear.


Notice Paul is talking to believers who have been grafted in and WHO STAND BY FAITH.

Then in verses 21-22 he warns them about being cut off.

And again, to show Paul is talking to believers look at verse 30:

30 For as you were once disobedient to God, yet have now obtained mercy through their disobedience,

Paul says they were ONCE DISOBEDIENT. Now they are obedient and have obtained mercy.

 2007/5/20 0:02









 Re: Question on Romans 11


rookie said

Quote:
This particular passage speaks of those in each generation are holy because the root that nourishes them are holy. Each branch is representative of a holy generation of people. This interpretation is seated in the following verses that precede it...

In the above section of Scripture we find that in the generation of Elijah, there were 7000 men who did not bow their knee to Baal, [u]which means they were not the seed of the devil[/u].

(emphasis mine)
Hi Jeff :-)

Speaking for myself, I don't think one can say this in the same way about those under the Old Covenant as one can about those under the New.

Under the Old, the Jews were holy by remaining separated unto God and following the commandments. Any who were worshipping Baal, ought to have been put to death, and certainly their souls would have been cut off from God as a punishment.

When Jesus said:

John 8:44
"You are of [i]your[/i] father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and [i]does not[/i] stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own [i]resources,[/i] for he is a liar and the father of it.

He was speaking of the state of mankind in general, not just the Jews that didn't believe in Him (I believe). And this would be true of those who didn't bow to Baal also, even though through the Law, they were counted 'holy'.


On the matter of a 'generation', this also is an Old Covenant truth.

(Young) Genesis 5
1 This [i]is[/i] an account of the births of Adam: In the day of God's preparing man, in the likeness of God He hath made him;
2 a male and a female He hath prepared them, and He blesseth them, and calleth their name Man, in the day of their being prepared.


(KJV) Genesis 5
1 This [i]is[/i] the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;
2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.


(NKJV) Genesis 5
1 This is the book of the genealogy of Adam. In the day that God created man, He made him in the likeness of God.
2 He created them male and female, and blessed them and called them Mankind in the day they were created.


Both the KJV and Young keep the sense of plural generations. But when we come to Christ, we find:

(NKJV) Matthew 1:1
The book of the genealogy of Jesus Christ, the Son of David, the Son of Abraham:


(KJV) Matthew 1:1 The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.


Does the 'generation' of Jesus Christ all have God as their Father?


Isn't this how the human inheritance of 'your father the devil' is finally dealt with - by the crucifixion of our old man (Rom 6:6) - and the terms of [i]our[/i] 'holiness' are not because we are separated by keeping the Law but by grace through faith we are able to walk in the Spirit 'in newness of life' (Rom 6:4)?

 2007/5/20 9:57





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