SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Image Map
Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Established Thoughts

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 Next Page )
PosterThread
CJaKfOrEsT
Member



Joined: 2004/3/31
Posts: 901
Melbourne, Australia

 Re:

Quote:

pastorfrin wrote:
You see my daughter and others with like struggles are symptoms of a much more sinister problem which needs to be discussed, that is one of works.



Sorry, I just noticed this. You've hit the nail on the head, brother. It really is a matter of "putting the cart before the horse". Someone once said to me, "It's not about what you DO, but what you ARE?" I responded (in a rare moment of inspire profundity) "No, its about DOING the stuff that people you ARE are like DO."

Unless our DOING comes out of our BEING, it works death. And if we approach life like this, then our doing will come naturally. I believe that it was Brian Coatney that said, "The Christian life isn't difficult. Although it is at time excruciating."

For this reason, I put so much more emphasis on "right believing" than "right living". Some would accuse me of complacency but, the way I look at it, if you truly believe something, then your life will reflect your belief. And on top of that, this "sinister problem" of which you speak, becomes a non-issue.

*Edit* And true belief change comes about by convincing. Thank God we have the Spirit of Truth to convince us of all things (see my earlier post)*Edit*


_________________
Aaron Ireland

 2007/5/12 11:53Profile
ChrisJD
Member



Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re: Established Thoughts

Hi everyone,

I listened to a testimony yesturday of the Revival at Asbury and I think there are some things in it that are related to this topic here.


[url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=3289]The Revival at Asbury College (Video)[/url]


It's not long in length and I think is well worth the time to hear it.



Also another message that seems related is this one given by Keith Daniel



[url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=8193&commentView=itemComments]The influnce of the Holy Spirit Through a Believer[/url]



Chris


_________________
Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2007/5/12 12:05Profile
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Thought life

Quote:
Have you ever noticed that He seems to have always reserved His explanations for the perplexed? Job, Elijah, Jonah, and Thomas come immediately to mind, and consider that these guys tend to be the butt of preachers jokes, when their moments of perplexity occurred.



Well noted brother. Gives me a lot of hope ... :-)


_________________
Mike Balog

 2007/5/12 12:29Profile
PaulWest
Member



Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas

 Re:

Quote:
He gave me a picture of me as a three year old, barefoot in an oldfashioned ankle length white nightgown, leaning on His stately knee. I did what anyone one would. I called my Elder Brother, Jesus, and said 'Abba needs you'



Dear sister,

Please excuse my inquiry, but what exactly does this mean? If I am understanding you correctly, God summoned you in the middle of the night for the purpose of comforting [i]Him[/i] and to get Jesus to "help" Him also?

This is strange vision. To "comfort" someone implies that the "comforter" is in a right, stable mind and able to quell the other's frustration. My experience with God has been the opposite; He is the Comforter, and when He gets my attention, it is invariably because I am sharing in a blessed burden He has placed on me. It has never been an act of commiseration on [i]my[/i] part for Him. God is grieved, yes, and we [i]share[/i] in His grief; we don't attempt to console Him - such a notion, to me, would infer that God has an emotional weakness that is dependant and alterable by a superior, innate virtue of mortal man.

In any case, be advised that claims such as these can bring about confusion and justified skepticism from other saints.

Brother Paul


_________________
Paul Frederick West

 2007/5/12 12:36Profile
pastorfrin
Member



Joined: 2006/1/19
Posts: 1406


 Re:

Dear Brothers and Sisters,
Please forgive me for my lack of clarity I have a hard time expressing myself on paper. Dah really, yes really. I can speak or teach to a group of people without a problem but when it comes to writing I come far short of the mark.
Let me assure each one of you that I am not fretting over my youngest daughter we have placed her in good hands, as with the rest of our children, our children’s children, and our children’s spouses. We pray for each one of them every day and rest in the Word of the Lord.
To clarify, I was using my daughter’s questions as an example of works that need to go beyond just bringing them in as Bro. Moody was encouraging us to do.
I ask many questions not to judge anyone or to portray myself as having the answers but to promote deeper thought on the issue. Having said this may I ask a few more?

How do we commit our works unto the Lord?
How did Jesus do it?
Was it because he had no aspirations to seek his own will but only to do the will of the Father, thus committing his works unto the Fathers, the Fathers thoughts thus being established in Jesus through the work of the Holy Spirit.

As Bro. Mike shared
And He that sent Me is with Me. The Father has not left Me alone, for I always do those things which please Him. Joh 8:29

Is this what Jesus means when he proclaims,
Luke 9:23
And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.


All this does seem very simplistic and it would be if we would simply accept it. Just as with Jesus, our will must be committed unto Him, How? Denying self, all things that cause me to look at me, and only accept the things that cause me to look to Him.
Lord, not my will but thy will be done. Only then will my works be committed unto Him, and then will my thoughts be established.

Isaiah 26:12
Lord, thou wilt ordain peace for us: for thou also hast wrought all our works in us.


Isaiah 26:3
Thou wilt keep him in perfect peace, whose mind is stayed on thee: because he trusteth in thee.

In His Love
pastorfrin

 2007/5/12 15:22Profile









 Re:

Quote:
UniqueWebRev wrote:
He has woken me up in the middle of the night to comfort Him, surprising me no end, that God would feel the pain so much, much less expect me to sympathize with Him. And even then, He gave me a picture of me as a three year old, barefoot in an oldfashioned ankle length white nightgown, leaning on His stately knee. I did what anyone one would. I called my Elder Brother, Jesus, and said 'Abba needs you'.

This puzzled me a bit too. The nearest I can get to understanding is when the Lord seemed to be showing how great a comfort He found it when the woman poured the jar of ointment on Him. It was near the Crucifixion, and her actions were confirmation that it indeed had to be the Cross. That was surely why He said she had "anointed [him] beforehand for burial". In His humanity Jesus must have been tempted to doubt, or go aside from, the Father's purpose. The woman's action was prophetic, and helped to strengthen Him for the coming ordeal.

But that's not quite the sort of thing you described...

Maybe you just aren't explaining it clearly?

Love in Him

Jeannette

 2007/5/12 18:18
UniqueWebRev
Member



Joined: 2007/2/9
Posts: 640
Southern California

 Re:

Quote:

crsschk wrote:
Quote:
Does God enjoy the infliction of pain on us? Hardly. He has woken me up in the middle of the night to comfort Him, surprising me no end, that God would feel the pain so much, much less expect me to sympathize with Him. And even then, He gave me a picture of me as a three year old, barefoot in an oldfashioned ankle length white nightgown, leaning on His stately knee. I did what anyone one would. I called my Elder Brother, Jesus, and said 'Abba needs you'.




Um, dear sister, I certainly hope I am misunderstanding you here but this has me squirming. It may in part stem from hearing a similar telling of some pastor speaking to Benny Hinn a number of years ago about God being 'sad', that the Lord told him; "[i]My children are being disobedient[/i]" and how [i]he[/i] said something to the effect of "I will stay here all day and comfort You" and everybody oohed and ahhhed ... And I literally became sick to my stomach, and grieved tremendously that such an idea could be forwarded without question but readily accepted.



I don't blame you, Mike. Benny Hinn makes me ill too, although I had no notion that this was even a contested idea.

As to God waking me up, it was a little strange.
Not that I haven't been told to get up and do something before, and yes, I was referring to something that did happen, and I quoted it a little out of context with what happened, not even recalling that I haven't spoken about this before.

I was awakened, for what reason I don't know. I wanted to be asleep, but I couldn't go back to sleep.

So, as always, when I have to wait through a time period, and I am too tired to read or write, or even watch TV, I started praying. And I figured, since it was so early, God had just wakened me to pray for a long time.

But I had barely started, and I heard Him speak something, although I don't know what it was.

All I remember is saying, "Abba, you even sound grumpy!

Then I just had a feeling of overwhelming sorrow, non-specific, probably of the world's pain and misery.

I said, I don't like all this pain, and I got an answer back, "Neither do I".

And, since I talk to God as naturally as if He were in the room with me, I said, And you want me to do what?

The picture that was flashed at me was humourous, and actually had feeling in it. It was amusement that I, a little human child, to Him, could even understand what He was thinking or feeling, even about the pain in the world. But He did seem to understand that I wanted to help Him if I could. And that was what I was trying to get across. God cares about us. We can't understand Him, but He does care! And this is not unbiblical.

I thought for a moment, confused by what was going on, and then thought, Jesus would know what to do. So I prayed for Jesus to draw on the strength of the Father to comfort Him.

God didn't expect me to comfort Him. But He did expect something, and I tried to figure it out, and act on it.

Then I sang praise songs to and about them for two hours, until it was getting light.

I may have confused you, and I am sorry for that. But the picture I was describing was of amusement that that I could do anything for God, or that I would understand anything He feels.

The point was that He saw me as a little child, and was amused by my attempt to comfort Him, since I have no idea what He feels, except when He tells me.

He told me He didn't like the pain. I did what I could, and called my Elder Brother, and cast my care. And then I sang praise songs, in case it would help. At the least, it helped me, and I am told, although I can't find the scripture, that God inhabits our praise, so it was a blessing to me to sing anyway. (Anyone know that scripture?)

So you can get un-sick. I didn't get a feeling of God's pain, but of His amusement at me thinking I could understand Him. He is the One who said He didn't like it either, the pain I was feeling. And God frequently speaks to us, if we listen. And I know God is amused by us. I would be too, if I were watching my children try to be me before they were old enough to understand, which I doubt will be before we are with Jesus, and have a lot of teaching given us.

Sorry for the confusion, but I simply repeated what happened. The context did seem to be in keeping with what I was talking about, which was that God does care about us, but we cannot expect to understand more than He tells us about, and I thought the humor evident.

My apologies, and I hope you are relieved. Let me know.

Forrest


_________________
Forrest Anderson

 2007/5/13 5:46Profile









 Re: Established Thoughts

Pasterfrin:

Quote:
Before we so easily blow off such advice

:-o :-P

 2007/5/13 7:47









 Re:

Quote:
Why do you think the voice comes from behind?

My opinion on this means that by turning around your stopping from walking your own way and turning around in repentance upon hearing the voice of God.

 2007/5/13 7:57
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Thinking

Quote:
The point was that He saw me as a little child, and was amused by my attempt to comfort Him, since I have no idea what He feels, except when He tells me.

Quote:
So you can get un-sick. I didn't get a feeling of God's pain, but of His amusement at me thinking I could understand Him.



Thank you sis, just to clarify here, in what you wrote earlier I mentioned 'squirming' and of course related what followed. The difference was in knowing somewhat where you are in God's grand scheme of things, had a sense that there was a bit more to this. Don't think I will ever get over the other ... It was one of the last and finishing touches that began to dawn on me as I was being challenged to rethink all that I had been holding to in the WOF\Prosperity constructs. It did fit right into what a lot of it amounts to ... a re-crafting God and the Son, the Holy Spirit even more so into [i]their[/i] own image. It is and was often as galling as it was flippant, demeaning and condescending as that example showed, this wretched idea that permeates is one of [i]them[/i] wielding power which is His ... sobriety of thinking is replaced with a flippant smugness, holiness is torqued out of it's truest meaning, the creature being needful to help God along. God of their belly and bank account. The manipulation and ... Recalling that incident again and mind you this was a much older man, the name I cannot now recall, the impression that was left was just one of "Poor God" and the other seeming attached sentiment of "What a great man that he loves God so much as to be His comforter" and the accompanying head bobbing of agreement, "Me too". Of course the sincerity I wouldn't touch, who knows, but the responsibility before the people, the notions forwarded, the sheer lack of concern and testing of experience against the measurement of scripture. The whole of it is so shot through with unchecked and unbridled emotionalism, untested notions and having been there, now looking back some years later, the anger has subsided on one level and just turned to grief. It is too bad in many ways because the emphasis on faith could be such a help to those who have little, but it is grounded wrong and tweaked to presumptuous proportions. There is love for the Lord and how to decipher what or where any solitary individual might be along the path, not a particular business I would wish to stick my nose in ... It is the ministers that have some real accounting and explaining to do. Our brother Aaron wrote some sobering things over in [url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=110&forum=35&46]Intresting Experience this last saturday!![/url]

Would to God that He might send a Revival of clear thinking and facing of the naked truth, a sobriety and humbling to the whole matter.
But thank you sister, I am relieved indeed.


_________________
Mike Balog

 2007/5/13 10:09Profile





©2002-2020 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Affiliate Disclosure | Privacy Policy