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pastorfrin
Member



Joined: 2006/1/19
Posts: 1406


 Established Thoughts

Dear Brothers and Sisters,

Have we really?


Bring Them to Jesus
John 1:40–42
“If you, my dear Christian friend, have a brother out of Christ, go bring him in. You will, by and by, have to stand by the open grave of some dear brother; and to be without Christ, how can you bear it? And so, my friends, let me urge upon you, first of all, to go and find your own brother.… Tell him how you love him, how you want him to be a Christian, how you are burdened and weighed down for his salvation. And then go to your sister, to your cousin, to your friend. Oh, do you each one of you write to some absent friend today, beseeching that Christ may be accepted just now!.… Oh, dear friends, if souls weigh on our hearts, let us go and bring them to Jesus.… Let us not rest day or night.… Let us commence with our own families.… If [they] have yielded, let us go to our friends. If they are strangers to Christ, oh, go bring them now while you may. Exhort by word of mouth; exhort by fervent and repeated letters. Begin at once your mission, lest it be too late forever, and praise God for the dear privilege of bringing others to him.”
D.L. Moody, The Gospel Awakening.
_________________________________________________


Before we so easily blow off such advice, think what could be if we would heed these simple words.
May I ask why we have such a hard time awakening to the urgency of bringing them in, the urgency of bringing them too Jesus?

My youngest daughter called me last night very distraught concerning questions she had about God’s love for us. After talking to her for a couple of hours, I log on to SI and the first thing I see is this post by strawrifle:

"(why im not right with God and cant get round it!)

this was a conversation i had with a friend,its rather rambling, but i think it explains why i cant get right with God as m,uch as i try the plan seems flawed and i'm annoyed at God,its my side of a yahoo chat


andy : the plan seems off
andy : and we pay
andy : flawed
andy : that the word
andy : Hes up there in this perfect harmony of 3
andy : and decides to make us
andy : knowing we and satan will mess up,but he still does it he still creates us knowing what will happen
andy : so we have this perfect God beyond fault who makes us knowin some wont make heaven
andy : odd
andy : but the kicker is this He blames us for not choosing him, when he knew we wouldn't in the first places
andy : grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
andy : why did a God want to create us knowing the results this would mean..he wanted to create us so badly he would risk some to hell i dont get that!!"
________________________________________________


Same questions, the very same questions my daughter is asking. At first I told her, this is foolishness, you know better, you know Him and you know His love for you, and then she said, “but dad do I, that is my question dad, do I, why won’t He give me peace about this?”

The Lord gave me a scripture this morning: Proverbs 16:3
“Commit thy works unto the Lord, and thy thoughts shall be established.”

We who have for years been working to bring them into His Kingdom;
Have we committed our works to the Lord? Is that where revival is found? Are we being lead by our own thoughts because we have ‘not’ committed our works unto the Lord? Is this all about us or is this about others truly being lead to Jesus Christ?
Who is really establishing our thoughts? The spiritual wellbeing of ourselves our loved ones and our neighbors all depend upon the answer to this one this question.

“Commit thy works unto the Lord, and thy thoughts shall be established.”

Without our obedience to this scripture all our works to ‘Bring them to Jesus’ will be done in vain, with only ??? for our efforts.

In His Love
pastorfrin


 2007/5/11 10:58Profile
JaySaved
Member



Joined: 2005/7/11
Posts: 1131
Kentucky

 Re: Established Thoughts

Quote:
why did a God want to create us knowing the results this would mean..he wanted to create us so badly he would risk some to hell i dont get that!!"



Very thought provoking question. What are other people's thoughts?

 2007/5/11 11:20Profile
InTheLight
Member



Joined: 2003/7/31
Posts: 2741
Phoenix, Arizona USA

 Re: Established Thoughts

Quote:
Same questions, the very same questions my daughter is asking. At first I told her, this is foolishness, you know better, you know Him and you know His love for you, and then she said, “but dad do I, that is my question dad, do I, why won’t He give me peace about this?”



I sounds as though your daughter is doubting God's love. There is a David Wilkerson sermon that Greg posted here on SI just recently. Please listen to it and consider giving a copy to your daughter, it deals directly with this topic of doubting God's love. This message is amazing.

[url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=15298]The Sin That Makes God Cry[/url]

In Christ,

Ron


_________________
Ron Halverson

 2007/5/11 11:46Profile
theopenlife
Member



Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 926


 Re: Some thoughts...

Quote:
why did a God want to create us knowing the results this would mean..he wanted to create us so badly he would risk some to hell i dont get that!!"



Jay, you asked for thoughts about this question. May God give me grace to write wisely.

The person who asked such a question began in error, supposing God to be as men. God is not as man, that He should "risk", nor is He moved by emotions against judgement ("wanted so badly to create")

God dwells outside of time and knows all things from the infinite counsels of eternity. Scripture teaches that from the ages He approved a perfect method of displaying His love. He thought it good to show kindness toward a rebellious people and determinded to save them by grace through faith. God foresaw the rebellion they would raise and the abuses of their freedom of will. He anticipated their joining fallen angels in eternal perdition. He even considered that many, indeed most, would not use even their limited powers of will to obey their conscience, let alone seek God, "for none seek God." From all eternity God foreknew their guilt in Adam, prepared a means of salvation, and anticipated their rejection of that plan. Romans 9 teaches that for this reason they are worthy of His wrath and to be a demonstration of His justice. We all are. However, God has shown grace, not merely required kindness, but true grace towards some of His creatures.

It sounds like the person is not doubting the love of God, but the sinfulness of man and God's justice in making creatures that He knew would rebel against Him. This is as if to say, 'He should not be allowed to make what He wants and then punish it if it rejects His way." The word teaches us to say, "Such great love that He would suffer Himself to see great wickness and rebellion, in order to demonstrate profound love for all eternity towards those He has called according to His purpose.

Ephesians 2:

4But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
6And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
7[b]That in the ages to come[/b] he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

29For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.


His purpose in creating has always ever been to demonstrate grace towards "a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a new nation." (1 Peter)

My thoughts.

PS: If she then wonders "what if I or another is reprobate?" she can be told, "God has not left us totally devoid of willpower. Even an unsaved man can decide not to lie. This will cannot merit righteousness unto salvation, but it is useful in prostrating even the most practiced sinner before the throne of grace, begging for the faith that accompanies salvation. And scripture teaches that "all who call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved," "all who come unto Me I will in no wise cast out," and "repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance." In other words, anyone who will obey God in seeking salvation through Christ has no need to fear reprobation."

Half of this is likely mistaken, but these are thoughts from a layman.

 2007/5/11 13:52Profile
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: Established Thoughts

Quote:
“Commit thy works unto the Lord, and thy thoughts shall be established.”



Love his verse brother, thank you for bringing it back up to focus again.

Another, from memory ...

[i]... you will hear a voice behind you saying, "This is the way, walk in it"[/i]

Quote:
Who is really establishing our thoughts?




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Mike Balog

 2007/5/11 15:44Profile
pastorfrin
Member



Joined: 2006/1/19
Posts: 1406


 Re:

Brother Mike,

You wrote:

Quote:

crsschk wrote:
Quote:
“Commit thy works unto the Lord, and thy thoughts shall be established.”



Love his verse brother, thank you for bringing it back up to focus again.

Another, from memory ...

[i]... you will hear a voice behind you saying, "This is the way, walk in it"[/i]

Quote:
Who is really establishing our thoughts?






Great scripture brother they go well together:
Proverbs 16:3
“Commit thy works unto the Lord, and thy thoughts shall be established.”

Isaiah 30:21
And thine ears shall hear a word behind thee, saying, This is the way, walk ye in it, when ye turn to the right hand, and when ye turn to the left.

So we have right works, right thoughts, and a right way if we hear the word behind us.

You seem to be the only one to notice; Who is really establishing our thoughts?
Without this we will miss the rest.

Why do you think the voice comes from behind?

In His Love

pastorfrin

 2007/5/11 22:34Profile
UniqueWebRev
Member



Joined: 2007/2/9
Posts: 640
Southern California

 Re: Understanding the unfairness of God


The further you are along with the Lord, the more forgetful one seems to be about the days when submission to a God we cannot understand is not just a difficult way to live, but also very difficult to understand why we have to live this way.

Not that I submit very well...I don't. I just submit better than I did when I started.

But one must understand that God is not our idea of Him, but Himself. He is our Creator, and therefore our owner, for Him to kiss or cuddle, or kill and destroy. It is a hard concept to get into your head.

That yes, God is just, as well as merciful, but not as a human would be. He follows His rules and regulations, as He has set them for Himself. He's been quite open about what He expects from us, and why. He's God. We're not. Learn to live with it if you want the eternal life He offers.

But submission to the will of God, and understanding that we are God's property, are difficult to accept. And when you are young in God, and do not have the whole gestault of even the outline of God's plan, it does seem very unfair.

But only the young and immature expect fairness from life, and from people, much less from God, who owes us nothing.

The harsh reality hasn't broken through yet. Unfairness makes my blood boil when it comes to human justice, and how badly that miscarries; how unkind and ungodly we are to one another; and how the blessings and tribulations of life do not make any sense until you have a long enough life to get some perspective.

The young want an Ideal Human God. So do most pagans. I'd like one myself if it were possible, but along with that humanity would come all the beastliness of humans.

What about Jesus? 100% human AND 100% divine at the same time. The divinity makes the human part subside more readily, but I doubt that Jesus enjoyed His predicament. Or the Cruxifiction.

The young look for fairness because they have not yet found out that this world is not supposed to be fair. Our world is God's testing ground, and school room, and if you flunk out, well, that's okay from God's point of view. He isn't human, or humane, or anything with a man in it.

Does God enjoy the infliction of pain on us? Hardly. He has woken me up in the middle of the night to comfort Him, surprising me no end, that God would feel the pain so much, much less expect me to sympathize with Him. And even then, He gave me a picture of me as a three year old, barefoot in an oldfashioned ankle length white nightgown, leaning on His stately knee. I did what anyone one would. I called my Elder Brother, Jesus, and said 'Abba needs you'.

If the young would just realize that God hates the neccessity of the process as much as we do, and values it more than we do, for it produces the fruit He wants. A family for Him, in His image, already tested, and not found wanting, because we're all hanging onto Jesus for our lives.

The young expect what they want to matter. They will find, eventually, that when you put God first it gets easier. Not great, just easier.

Everybody goes through this stage to reach maturity, and with prayer, their own, and from others, they will make it through. They just think that they won't, and the process is painful. Remember?

How odd that we can understand at all the necessities of God, and still have trouble submitting to it.

Life seems awfully long to the young, when the older you are, the more you know how quickly it all goes by. And no, God isn't fair. He's... God.


Blessings,

Forrest


_________________
Forrest Anderson

 2007/5/12 1:25Profile
pastorfrin
Member



Joined: 2006/1/19
Posts: 1406


 Re:

Dear Brothers and Sisters,

I thank each and every one of you for your wisdom and concern for my daughter and those who are also struggling with such thoughts. I earnestly covet your prayers for her and others who are suffering in like manner.
I would now ask that we look past the symptoms and at what I feel is much of the cause.
You see my daughter and others with like struggles are symptoms of a much more sinister problem which needs to be discussed, that is one of works.

Quote from original post:

The Lord gave me a scripture this morning: Proverbs 16:3
“Commit thy works unto the Lord, and thy thoughts shall be established.”

We who have for years been working to bring them into His Kingdom;

Have we committed our works to the Lord?
Is that where revival is found?
Are we being lead by our own thoughts because we have ‘not’ committed our works unto the Lord? Is this all about us or is this about others truly being lead to Jesus Christ?
Who is really establishing our thoughts?
The spiritual wellbeing of ourselves our loved ones and our neighbors all depend upon the answer to this one question.

“Commit thy works unto the Lord, and thy thoughts shall be established.”

Without our obedience to this scripture all our works to ‘Bring them to Jesus’ will be done in vain, with only ??? for our efforts.

Who is really establishing our thoughts?

In His Love
pastorfrin

 2007/5/12 10:29Profile
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: Established Thoughts

Quote:
Does God enjoy the infliction of pain on us? Hardly. He has woken me up in the middle of the night to comfort Him, surprising me no end, that God would feel the pain so much, much less expect me to sympathize with Him. And even then, He gave me a picture of me as a three year old, barefoot in an oldfashioned ankle length white nightgown, leaning on His stately knee. I did what anyone one would. I called my Elder Brother, Jesus, and said 'Abba needs you'.



Um, dear sister, I certainly hope I am misunderstanding you here but this has me squirming. It may in part stem from hearing a similar telling of some pastor speaking to Benny Hinn a number of years ago about God being 'sad', that the Lord told him; "[i]My children are being disobedient[/i]" and how [i]he[/i] said something to the effect of "I will stay here all day and comfort You" and everybody oohed and ahhhed ... And I literally became sick to my stomach, and grieved tremendously that such an idea could be forwarded without question but readily accepted.

[i]God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?[/i] Num 23:19

This seems an entirely human idea that God needs [i]our[/i] sympathy or our comfort in this way. It is a condescending isn't it? Wouldn't this idea put us in a place above Him, that He would need to be comforted? Sympathized with? Is there any scriptural warrant for this?

Quote:
So we have right works, right thoughts, and a right way if we hear the word behind us.

You seem to be the only one to notice; Who is really establishing our thoughts?
Without this we will miss the rest.

Why do you think the voice comes from behind?



I love the way you ask these kinds of questions brother. It is almost picturesque to dwell on it, to harbor a thought, a guess, perhaps it's partially that our faith is 'out front', in front of us and the voice is behind us, driving us forward. Having our thoughts established in trust and committed ... That word stopped me short here. "Committed" seems to carry a continual sense of past, present, future, ... 'continual', 'constantly' ... 'established' being fixed, the refuge we flee to, [i]God's thought[/i].

[i]And He that sent Me is with Me. The Father has not left Me alone, for I always do those things which please Him.[/i] Joh 8:29

[i]But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.[/i] Joh 14:26

Oh brother, this is very stirring to think on. There is something very rich in what you are asking here. I think I may be only touching on aspects of it but am very much concerned and have been for some time that this area is where we as the Lords disciples and as the Church have gone off the rails in large manner and why something like this setting has such great importance. It is in thinking, in the thought life, Chambers called it "[i]brain sweat[/i]".

It's been many years now that I pulled together something that had 'secular' sources and at the time feeling compelled to 'balance' them out with the spiritual, scriptural ... See if I can dig it up, have it tacked to the wall next to me. Actually better to post it separately.

To digress back to the Lord's "always" ... Ah, is this not the souls desire? To be well pleasing to the Lord ... again a notice stopping me short again, [i]"for"[/i], could this be part of our seasons of ... 'separation anxiety' from the Lords presence, the "for" being overlooked, a hinge word to what preceded it.

The other verse, that of the Holy Spirit bringing [i]all things to (our) remembrance[/i], again part of the established thought. In our case it is that which [i]is written[/i]. Is it not so? Even here, writing in this forum, it is the drawing on the Word that is hidden in the heart, entrenched into the fabric, seared into the marrow ... [i]established[/i]. All throughout the day, the conviction that comes, the encouragement, the re-thinking and processing, both cerebral and more profoundly spiritual, [i]deep calling unto deep[/i].

Quote:
Who is really establishing our thoughts?



I apologize for going on here and for the many framed words in 'quotes'. Words are fascinating to me, meaning, what is meant, what is conveyed, what is [i]back of it[/i] in Tozeresque parlance. But this question, [i]Who[/i] is establishing our thoughts. Of late another constant question has been, "Is it so?" Not as accusatory, but as, is it true, is it as the Lord has said? As a prayer, "Is it so, Lord?". And that carries a weight of responsibility in what I may be holding to, "Is it so?", "Am I off here? Have I missed something? I believe I may be wrong, I need to investigate this". It is why there is such a constant outcry about presuming and assuming too much of each other, giving no place to challenge upon our assumptions. No patience to allow others to sort through things on their own. But I am also not speaking of doubts upon that which is established, just that we are under it, not the other way around.

What has had a great part of this musing is in the wonder of [i]how[/i] the disciples, the writers primarily of the New Testament but generally all of scripture as we are told;

[i]All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:[/i] 2Ti 3:16

[i] For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.[/i] 2Pe 1:21

This coupled with our Lords word that the Holy Spirit would bring all things to their remembrance ... My wonder is, during the time they were with the Lord, did they take notes? Am not much one for speculation, but the possibility seems there, Luke comes to mind. Or was it [i]all[/i] brought forth by inspiration alone, by way of the Holy Spirit bringing [i]whatsoever I have said unto you[/i]. It almost seems rather unimportant in a way to disseminate it all. From what I gather of those times, that most things were transfered by oral tradition and the interruption here would be similar to what the critics and naysayers would bring forth, the Dominic Crosson's of the world who would attempt to decide what Jesus said or didn't say, where the Apocrypha would supposedly find it's footing, all these things that greatly overlook what is taking me a long time to get to the point of ... A bit more however before that. Knowing the frailty of human beings and even the very true aspect of what is called the 'telephone game';

[i]Chinese whispers or Telephone is a game in which each successive participant secretly whispers to the next a phrase or sentence whispered to them by the preceding participant. Cumulative errors from mishearing often result in the sentence heard by the last player differing greatly and amusingly from the one uttered by the first. It is most often played by children as a party game or in the playground. It is often invoked as a metaphor for cumulative error, especially the dangerous inaccuracies of rumours.[/i]
[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telephone_game]Wikipedia[/url]

The premise being that of a certain [i]must[/i], that there must be some error and that it is our duty as rational, thinking beings to be the ones to challenge [i]established thought[/i], (Gods thought, recalling; "Has the Lord indeed said?").

It is this that gets me every time. Almost every time a television program delves into the Bible or a writer that knows nothing of spiritual matters, (actually that is the very trouble), speaks or writes or crafts investigations into Bible times and Bible thoughts it is primarily surface facts, nothing to be afraid of nor not dealt with but the great overlooking of that which is [i]stated, written, ... meant[/i]. It is all disregarded, not mentioned, not even put into the considerations. Surely we know this is true;

[i]Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.[/i] 1Co 2:13,14

And even though it is in plain, open sight, that all the 'proving' ground is outside of this from their perspective, still it is rather bemusing that the Book that penetrates to the soul and marrow ... A bit of a digress here.

Here is my wonder and great incredible, unspeakable joy, the point long in coming. That for all these things, all the possibility of error, to recall that Jesus Himself wrote absolutely nothing. To consider that autobiographies in themselves could still have error, bias, slants, written by human instrumentation and the greatest yet being that;

[i]For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.[/i] 1Co 2:11

The uncanny things is, how did they manage [i][b]not to[/b][/i] botch this? The proof of inspiration is in itself. All the Lords words captured, reprinted as it were unto parchment ... where is the error? The chinks?

[i]Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?[/i] Joh 8:46

Indeed! All of the Lords character, integrity, captured and 'established', written through mere men! It is just a tremendous thing to really dwell on. Collectively the most intelligent human beings on the planet could never in a billion years come up with such a 'historical character' if they tried. It waylays every argument on it's own merits. It proves it's own validity by the force of it's own argument. And that 'it' is a [i]person[/i], Jesus, The Christ, our Lord. I am just as afraid that this might fly right over some of us as another [i]"Well, we know this already[/i]". But is it not the only apologetic needed? I just do not see how anyone who would apply a little [i]brain sweat[/i] and an ounce of concentration and an application to get to the very bottom of things could not be converted by just reading Jesus' words alone. Forgetting anything ever attributed to Him, spoken in His stead, what the Church has said or mangled primarily ... to put all that aside and decide for his or herself whether what Jesus spoke is in fact true, factual and accurate.

Why am I so amazed at all this? Look at ourselves here in this setting. The misunderstandings! And we have reams of thought to consider and wrestle with, place to make correction, adaptations, clarifications and still ... we argue and bite and ... Oh it is so wearing sometimes how slow we are to grasp just the most profound things. And I am most certainly speaking of myself. But here we have Jesus, in His Perfection without even His own hand physically writing but making use of bumbling, stumbling, errant creatures to convey His [i]thought[/i] to [i]perfection[/i]. For all the argument over translation issues and I understand the concern ... it is [i]almost[/i] in a sense impossible to mis-translate what was meant even in the 'accident's or 'on purpose' attempts that we creatures have done injustice to by 'rewriting' things into our present day vernacular. I am speaking as a whole, taken as a whole, all the things the Lord [i]said[/i]. We would have to not just replace a word here and a word there but completely displace whole sections of the Lords statements and write over them completely to dislodge the sheer [i]meaning[/i] that is contained in them.

Oh I pray this is making the sense I could hope for. It is something that I have been giving a lot of thought to and a lot of wonder over, Pastorfrin you just drew it out of me here and I apologize again for taking this in another direction. Truly, looking forward to your thoughts. There is something vast and important that I don't think we have yet tapped into.


_________________
Mike Balog

 2007/5/12 11:07Profile
CJaKfOrEsT
Member



Joined: 2004/3/31
Posts: 901
Melbourne, Australia

 Re:

Quote:

pastorfrin wrote:
Have we committed our works to the Lord?
Is that where revival is found?
Are we being lead by our own thoughts because we have ‘not’ committed our works unto the Lord? Is this all about us or is this about others truly being lead to Jesus Christ?
Who is really establishing our thoughts?
The spiritual wellbeing of ourselves our loved ones and our neighbors all depend upon the answer to this one question.

“Commit thy works unto the Lord, and thy thoughts shall be established.”



Brother, it is interesting that The Lord has had me begin to learn Psalm 37. The inspiration for doing so, was partly carnal, in the Spurgeon associated this with Psalm 73, which is my favourite Psalm. Having said that, I sense something of the providence of God in this Psalm. I note the fifth verse:

Quote:

Commit thy way unto the Lord, and He will bring it to pass.



Having only reached the seventh verse so far, I'm not yet at a place to comment adequately, but having said that, I have been stuck by the repeated occurrence of the words "fret not thyself". It seems as if the the Holy Spirit, through David, is taking into consideration the fact that "fretting" is a very real thing, that can consume a person, particularly when considering the justice of God.

I love this Moltmann quote, and quote it often:
Quote:

"The true faith begins where the atheist thinks it should end. In the mind boggling contradiction of all that we thought to be true about God."


I also heard Chuck Missler say, "When you encounter a 'contradiction' in the Bible, get excited, you are about to learn something new about God." Fact is, there is a lot about God to be "concerned" about.

Have you ever noticed that He seems to have always reserved His explanations for the perplexed? Job, Elijah, Jonah, and Thomas come immediately to mind, and consider that these guys tend to be the butt of preachers jokes, when their moments of perplexity occurred. It was not revealed to Paul that God's grace was sufficient for him until he had reached his own point of perplexity, concerning his own thorn in the flesh. I am becoming increasingly convinced that it is impossible to truly know God without honestly facing the fact that we have a difference in opinion as to how He runs the universe.

Even Asaph's 73rd Psalm, is a testimony to a man's struggle with perplexity, which led to heart purity. In light of this, consider Christ's own words, "Blessed are the pure in heart from [b]they shall see God[/b]." Asaph reached the point, just after saying, "I thought to know this, and it was too painful for me" where he could say, "Nevertheless I am continually with Thee. Thou hast holden me by Thy right hand. Thou shalt guide me with They counsel, and afterward receive me unto glory. Whom have I in heaven but Thee? There is none that I desire on earth beside Thee. My heart and my flesh faileth, both God is the strength of my heart, and my portion forever."

Note also, that it was from this place that he could say, "I have put my trust in the Lord, that I may declare all Thy works." Is it truly possible to "declare His works" from any other vantage point? Your daughter is quite normal, brother. I don't know if you picked up, in the [url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=16522&forum=36&14]article[/url] that I posted the other week (which I know that you read), my comments regarding true love requiring the undiluted truth to be seen, good, bad and ugly. Is that not what she is wrestling with, the "ugliness" of God? "Fret not thyself" brother, and be of good cheer, for what He has begun, He shall complete.


_________________
Aaron Ireland

 2007/5/12 11:37Profile





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