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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Women as Booty of War - OT

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"Why is a woman 'untouchable' or 'unlovable' if she's had another man, but a man can have more than one wife - and multiple concubines - why is she abominable and he clean?" (DEUT 21:15)



I can't recall any such law except that a priest was to marry only a virgin woman. Non-virgin unmarried women were not brought into serious jeopardy unless they attempted to lie and say they were virgins when they got married to their husbands, but had in the past given their flower to another (not the man she married). She could be stoned to death for that. But I know of no such law that says she could not be married if there was disclosure.



I understand your point, however, as David's first wife was a widow.

 2007/5/9 3:43









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"If a man marries a woman who's hymen is not in tact - even if it's because she rode horseback or fences, or whatever... ought she really to be stoned?" (DEUT 22:21)



NO! But it is certain that many have used this excuse- even to this day. That is a terrible thing also if it was a lie. The truth will come out sooner or later.

Again, someone would make note of it when and if it happened. The girl would tell someone out of fear if nothing else. I know of no case where anyone was stoned for this in the scriptures.



Who's gonna log how, where, and when a girl lost her virginity by accident? Some might say something. Some might be to ashamed. Some girls wouldn't even notice until the guy complained.

Even today there are cultures where the girl is "checked" by women to make sure everything's in tact when they're married. In S. Korea, women actually get surgery to ensure the man knows she's a virgin (even if she's only a "born again" virgin").

Things like this are why I'm so appreciative of Jesus' Grace.

"... but if these things be true, and the tokens of the virginity be not found for the damsel: Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the whore in her father's house..." (DEUT 22:21)

 2007/5/9 3:54









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"If a woman's raped in the city, but is petrified with fear and doesn't cry out... ought she to be stoned?" (DEUT 22:24)



She could cry out now or later. If a person came by and caught the people in the act then the eye-witness would have seen the knife to the throat. If she saw someone and they made eye contact or some visual contact she could have yelled at that time. HELP! HELP!! Otherwise there would be no witness and she could not be stoned. The law was to make distinction between rape and adultery. I think it was a quite effective law that demonstrates the wisdom of God. Sort of like the wisdom Solomon had in asking to divide the child. He knew how people would react and so also with this law. A person who is being raped will REACT in desperation and panic.



Tell that to my mother. And my best-friend's mother. And (at least) three of my ex-girlfriends.

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A person who is being raped will REACT in desperation and panic.



Or they will freeze up when threatened, be ashamed to tell anyone it was their father or another relative or close family friend, or be guilted into shutting up when mom or other family members won't listen.

Or maybe they won't say anything because they will be stoned because they didn't "cry out" when it occurred. But staying silent won't keep them safe once their betrothed discover they're not virgins.

The more I read of this law, the more I understand why Jesus freed us from it.

 2007/5/9 4:07
philologos
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Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

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"Why isn't a man who lost his genitals, and fatherless bastards, acceptable in the congregation of the LORD?"(DEUT 23:1)


For the same reason that all sacrifices had to be without blemish. “And whosoever offereth a sacrifice of peace offerings unto the Lord to accomplish his vow, or a freewill offering in beeves or sheep, [u]it shall be perfect to be accepted[/u]; there shall be no blemish therein.”
(Lev 22:21 KJVS) The high priest was also disqualified if he tore his clothes or uncovered his head. Those who represent God must be without blame or blemish.

This was not a matter of personal salvation but of representing God, his nature and the sacrifice of his son. It does not say they could not know God nor that they could not enjoy him, only that they could not serve him publically in the Levitical types of Christ and his Church.


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Ron Bailey

 2007/5/9 4:09Profile









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For the same reason that all sacrifices had to be without blemish.

“And whosoever offereth a sacrifice of peace offerings unto the Lord to accomplish his vow, or a freewill offering in beeves or sheep, it shall be perfect to be accepted; there shall be no blemish therein.”
(Lev 22:21 KJVS)

The high priest was also disqualified if he tore his clothes or uncovered his head. Those who represent God must be without blame or blemish.

This was not a matter of personal salvation but of representing God, his nature and the sacrifice of his son. It does not say they could not know God nor that they could not enjoy him, only that they could not serve him publically in the Levitical types of Christ and his Church.



Great explanation. Thanks!

 2007/5/9 4:14
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

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The more I read of this law, the more I understand why Jesus freed us from it.



[u]For the law made nothing perfect[/u], but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God. (Hebrews 7:19)

I certainly am not trying to exalt the Law. But in fairness to God and His word I think we have to answer some of these things as people ask if they are genuinly wanting to know.

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Tell that to my mother. And my best-friend's mother. And (at least) three of my ex-girlfriends.



Lets look at this passage again and see what the Law is saying.

[u]If a man be found[/u] lying with a woman married to an husband, then they shall both of them die, both the man that lay with the woman, and the woman: so shalt thou put away evil from Israel. ... and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city; and the man, because he hath humbled his neighbor's wife: so thou shalt put away evil from among you.

The passage is assuming that there are at least two witnesses to the act for this was necessary to bring a case.

At least two people are witness to a man lying with his neighbors wife. As these people passed by there would have been a reaction by the woman of some kind that would have shown distress. If she froze up or was weeping (or what have) you it would have been a clear signal. People are smart enough to know the difference when they see it. There would have been some questions, big time. They would have been able to conclude what happened based on what the woman said and did. This law was not intended to deal with men who raped women and got away with it (at least at the present because no one ever gets away with anything, really). It dealt with a man and a married woman caught in the very act.




_________________
Robert Wurtz II

 2007/5/9 8:27Profile
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re:

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Who's gonna log how, where, and when a girl lost her virginity by accident? Some might say something. Some might be to ashamed. Some girls wouldn't even notice until the guy complained.

Even today there are cultures where the girl is "checked" by women to make sure everything's in tact when they're married. In S. Korea, women actually get surgery to ensure the man knows she's a virgin (even if she's only a "born again" virgin").



In the Old Testament these things were taken very very seriously. Some scholars believe that these were the tokens of a blood covenant between the man and woman. When I was a teenager and older man came to speak to us and warned us of the seriousness of these things before God. God designed a woman in this way. Why? I personally believe the man had a point; but obviously there are other circumstances that are outside the norm.

Girls do have accidents. I know this for a fact. But it seems evident to me that God's original design was such as it is. And it is utterly horrible that so few marriages actually begin as God intended- from a place of chastity. Not because of an accident but because of fornication. A womans flower belongs to her husband and no one else. I know that's not popular to say, but it is reality and God's design. To step outside God's design is to invite immeasurable distress and pain. It has been my experience that women stress most on the things they have done willingly and try to come to grips with why they allowed themselves to do things. In many cases they were abused. But the abuse only goes so far as they unravel their lives. At some point they turn the finger back to themselves and ask, "Why did [u]I[/u] do what I did?" And it is then that they will fall before the Lord and truly begin to heal from their past.

Israel was a nation that God wanted to use to a great degree to demonstrate His wisdom and design for mankind and the way of redemption through the various pictures and examples. If man had gotten in step with the Law of God it had been a [u]much better[/u] world to live in. Our minds strain to comprehend the brutality of people whose conscience had darkened. They worshipped false gods by throwing their babies in the fire. Not just Molech- but here in North America thousands of years ago. Human sacrifice and all manor of evil. the law made nothing perfect- but it was an immeasurable improvement on the pagan worlds.


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Robert Wurtz II

 2007/5/9 8:44Profile









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Human sacrifice and all manor of evil. the law made nothing perfect- but it was an immeasurable improvement on the pagan worlds.



To show us our utter depravity.

Thanks a million Robert. You've really helped me to understand this.

 2007/5/9 14:28





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