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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Heredical Antinomian Creed

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PaulWest
Member



Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas

 Re:

Quote:
All true religion leads to holiness whether we call it arminism or calvanism. The bible does not use either phrase but rather "true religion that is from above" and the "doctrine that is according to godliness."



Amen. This Arminianism/Calvinism thing is like a bog of mud that so many people just wallow in and spin their wheels. When my car gets stuck in the mud, I look for something to slide beneath the tires for traction [i]to get it out[/i]. I find that adherence to the doctrines of holy living, humility, charity, long-suffering and self-denial work wonders. There's no greater board to "slide beneath the spinning wheel" than to gaze on Christ. The more His countenance grows brighter and brighter, the more my doctrinal quirks seem to shrivel up in the heat of the blaze. I have found that the more I divert my eyes from [i]self[/i], the more traction I am afforded to escape such mud holes.

Brother Paul


_________________
Paul Frederick West

 2007/5/3 14:30Profile









 Re:

one of the most amazing verses of the bible,


"the gifts and [b]calling[/b] of God are without repentance.... ahh, i remember when this verse really hit me hard was about 2 years ago while listening to the interview with Mr. Len. but, since then it has amazed me where this verse shows up. Just about every other thread started on this board, esp in regards to spiritual discernment and ministries is attached to this verse. i still dont know i fully grasp this verse, but with honesty i can tell you it has been in my mind day by day now for 2 years.

 2007/5/12 20:28
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re: Heredical Antinomian Creed

Quote:
He confronted Antinomian Calvinists in his day. Here is an exerpt from his book. This is a "Calvinistic Creed" which should make you sick to your stomach. It's hard to believe that there are people that actually believe this kind of stuff. But this is the result of the Calvinistic "Imputed Righteousness" or what Fletcher calls the "mystical" and "imagionary righteousness" which supposedly covers even present and future sins!


I am no Calvinist. However I am curious to know whether or not it is Fletcher or you who describes antinomianism as the result of 'Calvinistic Imputed Righteousness'?

John Wesley and Fletcher believed most decidedly in 'imputed righteousness'. You are making the same mistake as your mentor Finney in setting imputed righteousness in opposition to imparted righteousness. Wesley insisted on both truths.

Some Calvinists may deny 'imparted righteousness' but then their error is not that they preach 'imputed righteousness' but that they don't preach 'imparted righteousness'.

I am not sure why you have set yourself up as the champion of Finneyism but I suggest that you are not using these forums in the spirit in which they are intended. They are entitled 'Discussion Forums'... to dump propagandist statements here and then to refuse to discuss them is, in my view, a misuse of SI hospitality.


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Ron Bailey

 2007/5/13 4:04Profile
JaySaved
Member



Joined: 2005/7/11
Posts: 1132
Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
I am not sure why you have set yourself up as the champion of Finneyism but I suggest that you are not using these forums in the spirit in which they are intended. They are entitled 'Discussion Forums'... to dump propagandist statements here and then to refuse to discuss them is, in my view, a misuse of SI hospitality.



I agree.

 2007/5/13 17:31Profile
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
St. Joseph, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
Jesse's: I think that it would do some good for the Christians of this generation to revive this masterpeice and thoroughly saturate yourself in it.



The solution to the 'sin' problem is not more fear, uncertainty and doubt (F.U.D) of our salvation. I am convinced of this. Conditional insecurity leads no one to holiness. No amount of FUD can replace a life changing encounter with God that regenerates an individual into a new creature.

Is it really fair to find the most unbalanced believers to set up arguments against? Folk who actually believe they can live as murderers and be saved? It's easy to claim victory when your best arguments are arranged against your opponents weakest assertions.

Not everyone is so extreme. There is a balance to the word of God. No need for me to read more Finny type materials. I have already reckoned with the fact that his strength is preaching revivals and getting folk to stir the fallow ground of their heart up and resolve their controversies with God. But we can't live on revival preaching. It will kill you. It is one self-exam after the next. Imagine trying to exist in a relationship like that? In relationships folk don't walk around preoccupied with whether or not they have offended their partner or friend. I don't think it is a fair representation of God to always suggest that God is keeping some kind of score on us. It creates a works based- salvation by sanctification.

We know if we sin. The Holy Spirit brings conviction. I am coming to see the weakness of this type of fear based Christianity all together. Folk are never really able to stop and smell the roses. They are in a perpetual state of uncertainty. There is no hell on earth quite like the uncertainty of not knowing where you stand with God. Always worried. Am I good enough? Am I holy enough? Am I doing enough (works)? Am I being a good steward of God's goods? Can I salt my food? Can I plant flowers or must it be only vegetables? Can I eat sweet meats? Did I waste some of God's money and now stand in jeopardy? This is major bondage!

We have a clear outline of how we are supposed be born again and live walking in the Spirit. If we take all the counsel of God together it works. If we leave things out we create symptoms that require a new theology to counter and so on and so forth. We need imputed and imparted righteousness. We need to walk in the Spirit. We simply cannot alter the Gospel message in order to counter folks lawlessness. Let God deal with the consequences. We don't have to intervene for Him by coming up with alternate Gospel's. The True Gospel when rightly lived out through the born again experience cannot be improved upon to the intent of pleasing God.


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Robert Wurtz II

 2007/5/14 0:42Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Wesley and Fletcher were pretty much inseparable in their understanding of justification and sanctification. Here is one of Wesley's classic sermons.

[url=http://wesley.nnu.edu/john_wesley/sermons/020.htm]The Lord our Righteousness.[/url]

Fletcher's own work on [url=http://wesley.nnu.edu/john_fletcher/An%20Equal%20Check.htm]An Equal Check to Pharisaism and Antinomianism[/url] is also available online.

Sometime ago I introduced a theme which may have some links to this in [url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=flat&order=0&topic_id=5112&forum=36&post_id=&refresh=Go]once justified, always justifed?[/url] There may be some comments there that would interest some.


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2007/5/14 5:32Profile





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