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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : What Still Applies to Christians from the OT?

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HomeFree89
Member



Joined: 2007/1/21
Posts: 797
Indiana

 Re:

Quote:


Tithing... according to most preachers.




I know this is a little off topic, but does tithing matter anymore? Aren't we to give all that we have to Christ? If we do give all, we will give what the Lord wants us to give so we wouldn't have to tithe.

Jordan


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Jordan

 2007/5/3 20:13Profile
K_DAY
Member



Joined: 2006/7/28
Posts: 144
Ann Arbor, MI

 Re:

Maybe more to the heart of the original post, I have heard a number of people on this forum cite passages from the OT law when making an argument about why people shouldn't get tattoos.

Are we still under that law regarding body markings? What is the determinant of which laws we still must follow?

 2007/5/3 21:28Profile
hulsey
Moderator



Joined: 2006/7/5
Posts: 640
Missouri

 Re:

An excellent series of sermons by Charles Leiter here on SI might help your understanding:

[url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=8300]The Law of Christ Pt1[/url]

[url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=8301]The Law of Christ Pt2[/url]

[url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=8302]The Law of Christ Pt3[/url]


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SI Moderator - Jeremy Hulsey

 2007/5/3 22:16Profile
ADisciple
Member



Joined: 2007/2/3
Posts: 835
Alberta, Canada

 Re: What Still Applies to Christians from the OT?

I think it will help you to differentiate between the Old Covenant, and the Scriptures in the front of our Bible from Genesis to Malachi (commonly called The Old Testament).

God has done away with the Old Covenant He brought in by Moses. He has brought in a New Covenant.

And, we are not "baptized unto Moses," as were the Israelites of old, whom God bound thereby unto that Covenant from Sinai; we are baptized into our Lord Jesus Christ, and an entirely New Covenant that goes forth from the Heavenly Mount Zion (Heb. 12. 18-24).

So, while there are some in the earth who still try to relate to God on Old Covenant terms, this is utterly impossible. Only through the New Covenant of which the Lord Jesus Christ is mediator is it possible to draw nigh unto God.

Open your heart to Him (and keep on opening it) and let Him write His Law upon your heart and mind. He will be faithful to do this.

The Old Covenant is gone. Forever. However, the Scriptures from Genesis to Malachi, as many continue to discover, are a wondrous treasure trove of truth... but a treasure which can be opened and enjoyed ONLY with the KEY of the New Covenant. There is great untold wealth there, NEW COVENANT wealth, which we need the Holy Spirit to open up to us, to illumine to us, and enable us to enjoy.

We must come to Him as a little child, confessing our ignorance and blindness, and ask Him to "show us wondrous things out of His law."
And He WILL show you: He'll give you, if I can put it this way, a pair of "New Covenant glasses," saying, "Look at it all through these."

It has helped me immensely, in my own search for truth, to realize-- and if there's one thing I could emphasize more than anything else it's this-- all Old Testament Scriptures must be seen and interpreted in the light of the NEW Covenant.
(And if you see how immensly the aposltes of Christ quoted from the Old Testament, and pay attention to how they interpreted those Old Testament Scriptures, you will be among the wise.)

Hope this helps a bit.

AD


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Allan Halton

 2007/5/4 0:09Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
It has helped me immensely, in my own search for truth, to realize-- and if there's one thing I could emphasize more than anything else it's this-- all Old Testament Scriptures must be seen and interpreted in the light of the NEW covenant.


Amen, for me too.

Paul refers to the 'work of the law written in their hearts';“Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)” (Rom 2:15 KJVS)...this is not the same as the 'work[u]s[/u] of the law'(Rom 9:32; Gal 2:16; 3:2,5,10) which has to do with human achievement in keeping laws.

The 'work' of the law is the underlying principle of righteousness upon which Israel's law was based. The Sinai law was a particular and local and temporary application of a much more ancient code of behaviour which is written in the hearts of all humanity. The Sinai law is no longer in effect having ended with the coming of the Seed. (Gal 3:19) However the underlyng principles of that law are distilled into 'one word' (Lev 19:18,34; Deut 6:5; 11:1; Matt 5:43; 19:19; 22:37,39; Mark 12:30-31; Luke 10:27; Rom 13:9; Gal 5:14; James 2:8).

In Galatians, Paul describes this as 'one word'“For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.”(Gal 5:14 KJVS)It is interesting that in the Greek our English phrase 'thou shalt love' is actually just one word; agapEseis.

The underlying principle of the law was 'thou shalt love... God, neighbour. As the Lord expressed it“Jesus said unto him, [b]Thou shalt love[/b] the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, [b]Thou shalt love[/b] thy neighbour as thyself. [b]On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.[/b]”(Matt 22:37-40 KJVS)In its particular application to Israel it was hedged about by many secondary laws, many of them due to 'hardness of heart' (Matt 19:8)

The natural man has relics of this original 'law' written on his heart and his conscience, if it has not been cauterized, will bear witness to it and then either approve or disapprove of his actual behaviour.

One of the great promises of the New Covenant is “For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:”(Heb 8:10 KJVS)There is an interesting connection to the giving of the Sinai law and the coming of the Spirit in Acts 2. The Feast of Pentecost was, and is, celebrated by the Jewish people as the anniversay of the day when they received their law at Sinai. The coming of the Spirit in Acts 2 follows this same pattern. Christ goes 'up' to receive the covenant law having told his discipes to 'tarry' until the Spirit comes. The coming of the Spirit established the new covenant law in the hearts of God's new covenant people. Then all they had to do was live it!!
“And he said unto the elders, [b]Tarry[/b] ye here for us, until we come again unto you: and, behold, Aaron and Hur are with you: if any man have any matters to do, let him come unto them. And Moses went up into the mount, and [b]a cloud[/b] covered the mount.”(Ex 24:14-15 KJVS)

“And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but [b]tarry[/b] ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.” (Luke 24:49 KJVS)

“And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and [b]a cloud[/b] received him out of their sight.”(Acts 1:9 KJVS)As you say, "Old Testament Scriptures must be seen and interpreted in the light of the NEW covenant."


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Ron Bailey

 2007/5/5 3:11Profile









 Re:

Quote:
Maybe more to the heart of the original post, I have heard a number of people on this forum cite passages from the OT law when making an argument about why people shouldn't get tattoos.

Are we still under that law regarding body markings? What is the determinant of which laws we still must follow?



While we're not bound by the OT laws, NT teachings do show that the principle for the OT Laws are still in play. For instance, tattoos... Paul exhorts us to abstain from even the appearance of evil. When you see someone covered in tattoos is your first thought "Now there goes a man of God..."? Doubtful. We associate tattoos with the world.

God forbade tattoos in the OT because it was something pagans did, and He wanted His people to be seperate, peculiar, set apart from the world.

Today... most Christians want to be just like the world, thinking 1) I'm free in Jesus to do as I please, or 2) If I act and look like the world I'll be able to lead them to Christ.

I know Christians who have tattoos... and this is my conclusion: I will not judge someone for getting one, it's between them and God. But as for me, this is what I believe God has brought me to.

Krispy

 2007/5/5 6:28
hmmhmm
Member



Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4991
Sweden

 Re:

this is just my own view, but often we try to see how much we can get away with without sinning, how close can i come before it is sin, Cant remember where, I'm sure someone can help with the passage, doesn't Jesus say somewhere to his disciples that they should "do everything the teachers of the law told them"? they should not just do what they did, but their "doctrine" was right, just not their actions. They where hypocrites. Often we as Christians have a lower standard of holiness then them from the OT. Yet they did not have the Holy Spirit as we do, and another thing that often blows me away is that Jesus said John baptist was the greatest man ever born of woman, greater the Moses, greater then Elijah, greater then Abraham.... yet the smallest of us Christians are greater then him....

and about tattos... if we are the temple of the holy spirit, i have a hard time picturing someone repainting the temple with some graffiti, should we treat our body's with less respect? i don't think so.

God bless you all


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CHRISTIAN

 2007/5/5 6:49Profile









 Re:

We need to know the God of the law. Jesus said, "If you knew me, you would know my Father also." Someone said on here that it is not necessary that we keep 100% of the law and I do agree but we need a spirit of submission to even the things we don't understand in the O.T.

We don't have to follow the way the Jews ate in the Bible or even eat (Kosher) today but they are much more healthy than we are! My best friend and her husband (Bill) went on vacation and Bill accidently ordered her Kosher food the entire vacation!! LOL At first she was aggravated at him but her meals ended up being much better than his and he had the diabetic menu.

My humble opinion is not written in stone and I am NOT talking about keeping the letter of the Law strenously. But I am encouraging any and all to read and know the God of the O.T., He and it (the Law) is the teacher who indeed leads us to Christ and once we are led to Christ, we should not forget Him.

That's one reason why I like listening to Art Katz... his sermons have taught me so much about the God of the O.T.

God bless you!!!



 2007/5/5 10:49
HomeFree89
Member



Joined: 2007/1/21
Posts: 797
Indiana

 Re:

Quote:

K_DAY wrote:
Maybe more to the heart of the original post, I have heard a number of people on this forum cite passages from the OT law when making an argument about why people shouldn't get tattoos.

Are we still under that law regarding body markings? What is the determinant of which laws we still must follow?



That's what I've been trying to figure out. I'm not trying to get away with sin and I don't want to be under the Law, but I heard people try to convince others with OT passages that divorce and remarriage is OK. However, when asked about things like not having two types of fibers in your clothing they say that we don't need to do that.

If we use one part of a chapter and excuse another doesn't that nullify our argument?

Jordan


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Jordan

 2007/5/5 12:59Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7428
Mississippi

 Re:

Quote:
As you say, "Old Testament Scriptures must be seen and interpreted in the light of the NEW covenant."



And many NT principles were first introduced in the OT, especially by the OT prophets, which will help one in its understanding.

ginnyrose


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Sandra Miller

 2007/5/6 23:25Profile





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