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Discussion Forum : General Topics : Biblical Discernment Ministries

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Nile
Member



Joined: 2007/3/28
Posts: 403
Raleigh, NC

 Biblical Discernment Ministries

[url=http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/notebook.html]Biblical Discernment Ministries[/url]

I want to throw this out there as an all-around awesome resource site. I discovered it a couple weeks ago and it has been of tremendous help to me. (As with anything, I do not 100% endorse this site.)

Here are some of the articles I have found most useful/enlightening:

[url=http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/exposes/bonhoeffer/general.htm]Dietrich Bonhoeffer[/url]
-He's quoted often - turns out he's a heretic!

[url=http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/exposes/luther/]Martin Luther[/url]
-I learned some things about the famous reformer.

[url=http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/exposes/mcdowell/general.htm]Josh McDowell[/url]
-I used to love him...but he's gone bad.

[url=http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/exposes/lewis/]C. S. Lewis[/url]
-After reading about Lewis, I have a hard time seeing how any respectable Christian can endorse him at all!!! (save by ignorance)

[url=http://www.searchingtogether.org/secret.htm]Hell's Best Kept Secret[/url]
-An excellent critique that highlights some of the issues I have with HBKS and WotM.

[url=http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/Psychology/pk/]Promise Keepers[/url]
-I have heard a lot about them - glad I never got involved.

[url=http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/Psychology/fantasy.htm]Fantasy[/url]
-A wonderful article on the "Christian" Fantasy. I do think they take it a little far though...

[url=http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/Psychology/rockm/]Christan Rock Music?[/url]
-I had already turned from rock music when I read this, but this reinforced my views on the, er, um, well, bad music.

[url=http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/Psychology/ccc/]Campus Crusade for Christ[/url]
-They have this on my campus. I don't plan to attend.

[url=http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/BookReviews/movies/passion.htm]The Passion of Christ[/url]
-Some good reasons why I don't support it.

I hope this site is as helpful to some people as it was to me.

In Christ,
Nile


_________________
Matthew Miskiewicz

 2007/4/30 13:32Profile
iansmith
Member



Joined: 2006/3/22
Posts: 963
Wheaton, IL

 Re: Biblical Discernment Ministries

It's easy to attack the faith of dead people... they can't fight back. We'll more or less all be surprised at who is in heaven when we get there (who is and who isn't) although I'm certainly not going to get on a soap box against CS Lewis, Martin Luther or Dietrich Bonhoeffer.

These men, in their lives and writings displayed and intimate love for Jesus, although this is not certain proof of their salvations their lives did display the fruits of the spirit.

I have personally read Bonhoeffer's Cost of Discipleship (a great book on Grace) and Life Together (a great book on devotional life and communal Christian life).

I've also been blessed by the writings of CS Lewis.

Certainly Western Christianity owes a great deal to the work, theological and practical of Martin Luther.

Discernment ministries, whatever their name seems to be just a bunch of disgruntled denominationalists who like to take potshots at people generally regarded to have sound faith.


_________________
Ian Smith

 2007/4/30 13:42Profile
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re: Biblical Discernment Ministries

I read a couple pages from this site. Rather interesting. It would be nice if so many theologians and historians were much more balanced and open in their presentation of so many "men of faith."

*(edit)*

Though I'm typically not a big fan of so many so-called "discernment ministries" because of they tend to be overall unedifying in regard to building up the saints of God, they do show a scrutiny of various "saints" that we should do well to embrace before we recommend the writings of some "brothers" so whole-heartedly to others. For example, in the typical evangelical seminary very seldom is Luther looked at critically, and the major faults that dominated his thinking and life are looked at very minimally, and pretty much swept aside by some simple: "oh, well, nobody's perfect!" or "well, can you really fault Luther, he had such limited light compared to today!"


_________________
Jimmy H

 2007/4/30 13:54Profile
livingfire
Member



Joined: 2007/4/28
Posts: 12
Silver Spring, Maryland

 Re: Biblical Discernment Ministries

Respectfully, I would have to say that we can find "something" wrong with everyone if we look hard enough. No matter how much Christians denigrate or criticize C.S. Lewis, I can say for myself, personally, that I doubt I can ever be half the Christian he was. A pastor, Bob Jones (I think he was of the "Bob Jones University") once visited C.S. Lewis and after being with Lewis for a while Bob Jones stated about Lewis that "the man drinks, he smokes, he cusses, but he IS a by God true Christian" [this is a very loose quote but is true in essence]. I don't think I could survive in a Christian world where C.S. Lewis was considered a heretic.

Dietrich Bonhoeffer, whose "theology" I don't particularly like, was executed by the Nazis (by hanging) for his supposed involvement in removing Hitler from power. I would consider this man, Bonhoeffer, to have given his life so others may live.

Christian fantasy is good if it is good in a fictional sense and if it truly portrays the values and ideals of the JudeoChristian tradition. "Lord of the Rings" is a perfect example of a Christian fantasy that, written by a Catholic writer who truly did love God, is an expression of the JudeoChristian tradition and worldview, although it is not explicitly Christian. The world may not see "Lord of the Rings" as a Christian fantasy, but Tolkien certainly did, and thousands, if not millions of discerning Christians see it that way too.

We have to realize that Christians such as C.S. Lewis, J.R.R. Tolkien, G.K. Chesterton, Sigrid Undset and others, were men and women of intellect. Some of them may have suffered from "pride of intellect," which is a sin, but I am pretty sure that most of them recognized that sin and tried to correct it. It is easy to bear false witness against creative Christians, artists, writers, movie-makers, etc. The important thing to remember is that they are dealing with story, with fiction, and that fiction is not fact. We also have to remember that these artistic people were and are "images of God," and thereby they are involved, as Tolkien says, in acts of "sub-creation" and by these acts of "sub-creation" they perform a function that God talented them with.

Please do not take any of these words as ad hominem attacks or any kind of attacks at all. God bless you!



_________________
Eugene

 2007/4/30 13:56Profile
iansmith
Member



Joined: 2006/3/22
Posts: 963
Wheaton, IL

 Re:

Well it really comes down to the parable that Jesus used of the two sons that the father asked to go work in the vinyard... this discernment ministry uses a lot of things that Dietrich Bonhoeffer said in a few limited writings to make the case that his entire theology was groundless... when someone who has read a larger portion of his writings would know that those were just ideas or considerations that he made to flush out the topic, not absolute statements.

One son's spoken theology was perfect, but his actions were non existent. The other son's spoken theology was wrong, but he went out and did the will of his father.

We take a snap shot of a man's words, one or two sentences out of context and project them onto someone's lives as if they tell the whole story when hundreds and thousands of people that they have personally touched would say otherwise.

This is slanderous and not edifying.


_________________
Ian Smith

 2007/4/30 14:10Profile
iansmith
Member



Joined: 2006/3/22
Posts: 963
Wheaton, IL

 Re:

I forgot to mention my other favorite discernment ministry:
http://www.atruechurch.info/falseteachershome.html


_________________
Ian Smith

 2007/4/30 14:12Profile
John173
Member



Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 289
Omaha

 Re: Biblical Discernment Ministries

I was taken back a bit when I saw Chuck Smith and Calvary Chapel in their list of exposes. I briefly scanned the article and discovered that the problem they have with Calvary doctrine is they teach the baptism in the Holy Spirit, and believe that the gifts of the Holy Spirit are active today.

If I were to do a biblical discernment ministry such as this, I would consider adding those who teach that the gifts of the Holy Spirit are [i]not[/i] for today.

Other than this doctrinal disagreement, I saw many that certainly need to be exposed.

In Christ,

Doug


_________________
Doug Fussell

 2007/4/30 14:20Profile
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

Quote:

I was taken back a bit when I saw Chuck Smith and Calvary Chapel in their list of exposes. I briefly scanned the article and discovered that the problem they have with Calvary doctrine is they teach the baptism in the Holy Spirit, and believe that the gifts of the Holy Spirit are active today.



Most "Biblical discernment ministries" out there that I have come across tend to come from a Calvinistic/cessationist point of view.


_________________
Jimmy H

 2007/4/30 14:38Profile
ChrisJD
Member



Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re: Biblical Discernment Ministries

Hi everyone.

Wanted to pass along a few passages of scripture to take along in the consideration of [i]discernemnt[/i], whatever that may mean to us, or to those who claim to operate a [i]discerment ministry[/i].


One passage that came to mind was from the letter to the Corinthians, where among the gifts of the Holy Spirit is mentioned the gift of [b]discerning of spirits[/b].


Not too long ago as I got on the train one night to come home, I distinctly felt as though I sensed or percieved a perverse spirit nearby. As the train went along I noticed that two men that were sitting nearby in the car that I was in were several times looking over at me and at one point I heard one of them comment on how I was [i]reading a Bible[/i].





The scripture also says elsewhere, if I may qoute a somewhat lengthy passage:

" Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man." - 1Corinthians 2:12-15


A few things that I notice from this passage...

The things of God are taught by the Spirit of God and not by man's wisdom. And the things of the Spirit of God are [i]spiritually discerned[/i].


We must have the Spirit in order to judge or discern, in the Spirit.



[i]...he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man[/i].


Perhaps an example of this in the scriptures is where the Pharisees said that the disciples were breaking the sabbath


[b][color=000000]At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn and to eat.[/color][/b]


And to this accusation the Lord Jesus said, among other things,

[b][color=660033] But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.[/color][/b]


They knew the scriptures well enough didn't they? Yet He says they [i]condemned the guiltless[/i]. Why? Why did they miss it? I beleive that judgment according to the letter [b]only[/b], can cause us to err. The Lord Jesus said

[b][color=660033] God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.[/color][/b]

and also He said

[b][color=660033]It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.[/color][/b]


The Word is Truth. But it is also Spirit. We must have both, the Word and the Spirit, Truth, and the Spirit of Truth.


I don't mean to suggest here that we should cast aside the scriptures for judgement of right and wrong, truth and falsehood, God forbid! Still,



[i]...he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man[/i].


This supposes then, that those who judge must have the Spirit, or thier judgement will not be right and according to righteousness.



We should try to be carefull then, to not judge after the letter only, but judge righteous judgement, according to the Spirit, not truth only, but by the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Truth.



Chris


_________________
Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2007/4/30 16:11Profile
Isaiah64
Member



Joined: 2006/9/27
Posts: 85


 Re:

iansmith wrote:
I forgot to mention my other favorite discernment ministry:
http://www.atruechurch.info/falseteachershome.html




You're being sarcastic, right?

This is the website of the Darwin Fish cult.

See [url=http://www.atruecult.info/]A True Cult[/url]

 2007/4/30 16:18Profile





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