| Re: real faith|
One more thought that I believe that needs to be articulated, and that is knowing God in His righteous judgments
the degree of suffering, such as was witnessed during the holocaust, and no doubt will be witnessed again
What will happen to faith during those scenes when instead of healing and deliverance and raising the dead, the dead are stacked like so much cord-wood and the mourning has passed beyond the point of tears? Will the kind of preaching/teaching that emphasizes raising the dead and healing the sick and faith from that very narrow perspective of faith help during those times of crisis that are so frequently referred to in the Psalms where God seems to be silent and the heavens seem to be brass, because of the abounding sin
Clint. This is good. Have you ever listened to any of Art Katz' teachings? Art wrote a book called, [u]The Holocaust: Where Was God?[/u] It really made me think. I do want to have the kind of faith that can endure the suffering to come, because I do believe there are dark times ahead. I also believe that God worked miracles to spare the lives of some during the Holocaust. There's so much to think about. I just want to be certain that I believe God in [i]every[/i] situation. It's faith which pleases God and it's faith which glorifies God. Bless you, Brother. Your posts are sweet. Love, Dian.
| 2008/1/29 2:13||Profile|
West Monroe, LA
Have you ever listened to any of Art Katz' teachings? Art wrote a book called, The Holocaust: Where Was God?
Thank you Dian.
Yes I have listened to a few of Art Katz' teachings over the course of the last 6 months or so, and was pleasantly surprised to find perfect agreement in regard to what I believe Jesus taught regarding tribulation, and to be challenged by his call for authenticity among those who aspire to be "full gospel". I have not read the book you referred to, but I will try to get it.
I just listened to a message by Brother Keith Daniels: "Every Branch in Me That Beareth Fruit" [http://downloads1.revivalgodsway.com/1/SID1544.mp3] that was such a blessing to me, particularly at this time, and it articulates so much regarding this walk of faith without being on "faith" per se, and in fact addresses so many of the things being discussed in a couple of other threads regarding "holiness".
I still would love to see a thread on this subject of "faith" explored for the edification of all.
I thank God for finding this site, not just for all the godly messages, but also for so many on these forums that seem to have a sincere hunger and thirst for truth and righteousness.
| 2008/1/29 10:24||Profile|
| Re: mine|
I had A HUGE MOUNTAIN of sin.
| 2010/7/8 10:25||Profile|
| Re: Back to the original question, Andrew Wommack|
I have heard of Andrew Wommack, and would like to give my opinion of the man and his ministry. I do not often join in any kind of discussion that involves a particular individual, but I will make an exception in this case.
About 15 years ago someone gave my wife and I a couple of teaching tapes from Andrew Wommack. At that time I rejected them, not because of what they contained as I had not heard them yet, but rather because he was not someone who was "one of us" if you know what I mean. I did not know him and had never heard of him, so I automatically assumed there must be something not right about him and cautioned my wife against listening. At the time he was not on TV and ran his Bible College out of one room in an old police station building near Manitou Springs, CO.
Eventually as my wife began to listen I overheard the tapes and realized that this man was a very anointed teacher who was teaching a very Biblical doctrine. I began listening as well, and the result was one of the greatest periods of spiritual growth I have ever experienced. We met a couple who worked for Andrew's ministry and spend a few days with them several times on trips to CO. We toured the ministry and met Andrew and Jamie. We have supported his ministry since that time financially because we have seen the fruit and know it is good ground in which to sow.
As to the carte blanche statement that he is "one of those health, wealth, prosperity preachers", I can say this is not an accurate statement. You may not know this, but when he started out in the ministry God told him to give teaching materials away for free. We have shoe boxes full of old cassette tapes that we listened to and we were never charged for one of them. He does charge for teaching sets in fancy boxes with colorful labels, but he would send anyone three free cassettes a week who would call in and request them. His teachings on money and giving are well balanced and Biblical.
The statement was made that healing is not in the atonement. I would encourage anyone to study the atonement in depth. Healing is definitely there. I would encourage an in depth study of Isaiah chapter 53 along with the commentary on this chapter by the writers of the NT including Jesus Himself. It is powerful.
Is Andrew Wommack perfect? Does he have all of his doctrine figured out so that he will never be in error? Rhetorical questions. Of course not. But then again, neither do I nor any one else for that matter.
But I would strongly recommend Andrew's ministry to anyone who asks.
| 2010/7/8 19:19||Profile|
| Re: Andrew Wommack|
it is the truth that sets free not our opinion of it.
I listened to AW for years. He came across as humble and a great teacher. But as i grew in christ i realised that his work is very Word Of Faith. WOF is a brand of religion i have unsubscribed to as i find it to be very erroneous and misleading, and possibly damanble. I had a former manupulative bible study teacher who loved his work and when we opened the bible examine his doctrine i got the usually hostility you get when one who is blind is confronted with the truth (i must admit i was the most zealous defenders of this heresy when i was blinded myself). I was told dont "throw out the baby with the bath water", "dont spit out the meat with the bone". The defense was we all have errors. But i believe we may be mistaken for a little while but if we have the spirit of truth we will eventually end up with right doctrine. Jesus warned about the leaven of the pharasis i personally think once error has been identified by scripture we would me wise to mark and avoid the proponents of such fallacy. We can the be in a position to pray for AW. False teaching is false teaching. AW seems a nice kinda guy but even the devil can transform himself into an angel of light. covenant theology is the central focus point of most of what he teaches.
A shadow is formed when light is obscured by darkness. A select few were chosen to live under that shadow,but the light of men has come and the invitation is to all to live in the light.
AW is intent on subtly bringing people back into bondange of the law.
So personally while i really like him as a person. I cant trust a word he says so i dont listen to him.
| 2010/7/12 8:13||Profile|
| Re: twayneb|
i agree with you brother, Andrew Wommack is a very anointed teacher of the Word, and like you since listening to him, i have grown spirtually like no other time.
I too would strongly recommend Andrew Wommack's minstry to anyone who asks, and also i would say the same, is he perfect? is any minister? but i believe as AW would say himself, he has left but hasn't arrived yet.( but one of the best teachers of the Word of God i have heard.)
ellie from england
| 2011/5/4 10:44||Profile|
| Andrew Wommack|
I have been a Christian for 44 years, if my subtraction is correct and have received insight and good Bible teaching from many, many different teachers who are brothers and sisters in Christ. A few of the male teachers/preachers were starting with Billy Graham (since as a young Christian he was the most widely heard), Charles Stanley, Andrian Rogers, Lloyd Ogilvie, Chuck Swindol, many other well known teacher/preachers and many unknown to most, but good teachers and preachers on a local level. I have also been blessed by teaching about who we are in Christ from Norman Grubb, Bill Volkman, Watchman Nee, Torrey, now Joseph Prince and also Andrew Wommack. Andrew has no marks of a cult leader, is not centering the ministry about himself but trying to get the rest of the body of Christ to recognize who we are in Christ and who we are not just in our human flesh selves. He offers all of his teachings free of charge on the internet and free of charge if you get one on CD and send it back for another, in case you are unable to contribute. That is VERY rare. Also he is very down to earth and doesn't put on spiritual airs. You know right up front what he is teaching because all of it is right on the internet for anyone to listen to. He came from a Baptist upbringing and his father was a deacon. He has been raised in the same kind of background as I have. I believe that our denomination has been excellent it presenting the gospel of Christ in how to be saved but has left off much of what was paid for by Christ on the Cross. This gap has partially been filled in by Andrew Wommack's teaching (for me at least). I have come to the conclusion that if anyone can point to any time that Christ told anyone who came to Him for healing that He would not heal them because He belived God could use them better sick, then I would agree that God wants some believers to be sick. Since there is no place that Christ did that, then I agree that salvation includes healing.
Paul's thorn in the flesh does not specify illness. He was a completely unique person as well. No one that I know of had the abundance of revelation given them to the church since Paul.
I think the ones who have a tendency to lump Andrew in by saying "oh he is a health and wealth preacher" because they may have watched him once or twice and taken a few statements out of context, doesn't mean that he spends most of his time on health and wealth. I believe he has a more balanced teaching and does not teach condemnation for those in Christ Jesus but rightly teaches that we are actually new creatures and that we are now vessels of the Spirit of God.
Do I agree with every single word out of his mouth. Probably not, but then I can't say I agree with everything I have heard Billy Graham say or any other teacher since all teachers are human beings. Scripture is the final authority.
I think we place too much emphasis on things like who we accept teaching from and who we don't. We need to study ourselves and ask the Holy Spirit who is indwelling believers to teach us and make sure we are on track. If you are looking for a perfect human teacher, you will never find one. We can pick and pick, if we are so inclined and find fault or imperfection in anyone, and I do mean anyone who is human.
I believe that imperfection is to remind us to put our trust in Christ, not in men and that we are not perfect outwardly but we have been imputed righteousness and we believe by faith that God is working in us to will and to do of His good pleasure.
Just as my Christian life has had its pitfalls and its learning through failure, every other Christian will go through the same thing, if they are honest about it. That is why we need Grace. From that grace we can grow and learn and be forgiven and forgive and give grace to others.
I have been greatly encouraged by Andrew's biblically based teaching. The main things, the core things are in complete agreement with scripture, some other things I may not be in complete agreement with. However, he is my brother in Christ and I appreciate how the Lord is using him, to touch many lives for Christ and to encourage others to walk in faith.
| 2011/5/15 21:39||Profile|