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Spitfire
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Joined: 2004/8/3
Posts: 633


 Re:

Hi Ron. What is your point about Jesus talking about a literal mountain? Were you meaning that he wasn't trying to relate the mountain to other, seemingly impossible, situations?

I see his reference to the mountain in this verse as being the best example he could find of an age old reality that seems impossible to change. Mountains are age old realities and as far as I know, no one has ever spoken to a literal mountain and moved it. I've always believed that Jesus was making a point that, with faith in God, there's nothing that's impossible, and he was trying to get his disciples to think outside the box, to think with their faith rather than their reasoning. Dian.

 2007/5/1 9:13Profile
WordAndTime
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Joined: 2007/5/3
Posts: 2


 Re: Andrew Wommack

For more than 20 years that I have been a Christian, I have received the most spiritual growth from gifted Bible teachers. Andrew Wommack is one of them. He is not the only one I have received from, but certainly one of the best in my opinion. For a reference point I can list some of the others that are on the top of my list: C.J. Mahaney; Joe Focht; Mylon LeFevre; Steve Fry; Bob Yandian; Bob Sorge. You are welcome to look these names up on a search engine to find out more about them. And, it is by no means a complete list of those who have provided solid growth in my life. But since the topic here is Andrew Wommack, I'll explain.

Without counting, I probably have 300 of his teaching tapes, and I have found him to be a well balanced teacher. I understand that some of the comments posted on this thread state that he is a health/wealth preacher. I have seen some extremes of that in others on television or in print, but I would not apply that to Andrew Wommack. I have perceived others to give that kind of message for reasons of personal gain, but again, my discernment is Andrew is teaching for the benefit of the growth of the body of Christ.

For those that state health/wealth teaching is dangerous, are you referring to any teaching at all on the topic, or are you applying your comments to an extreme example? If wealth is dangerous, why did God prosper Abraham, David, Solomon, and the nation of Israel when they came in to the promised land, just to name a few? If teaching health is dangerous, why did Jesus heal the multitudes?

The example shown in scripture is God has blessed us with a body that has the capacity for health as being the normal state. Symptoms of illness tell us something is wrong with the body and it is in a state of dis-ease.

God has also blessed us with the capacity to be a steward of finances and earthly goods. The Bible tells us that if we are faithful with little, He will make us ruler over much. God has also told us that we shall have no other gods before Him. Health and wealth are blessings from God, not idols.

There is obviously much more that can be said, but I will leave this response with the conclusion that Andrew Wommack teaches on much more than health and prosperity, all of which I have found to be a blessing for my life.

Thanks for taking the time to read this.

 2007/5/3 12:28Profile
philologos
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Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
Hi Ron. What is your point about Jesus talking about a literal mountain? Were you meaning that he wasn't trying to relate the mountain to other, seemingly impossible, situations?


My point was taking up your suggestion that the mountains that Christ moved were figurative. 'moving mountains' may have become a figurative way of talking about dealing with impossible situations but Christ's point was not about 'figurative mountains'. He was actually saying that real mountains could be moved by those with genuine faith.

The fact that he had just come down from the mountain and was in the locality made it possible to actually 'point' to 'this mountain'. He was not, in my view, talking about 'mountaneous problems' but simply revealing the extraordinary power of genuine faith.


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Ron Bailey

 2007/5/3 12:47Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
For those that state health/wealth teaching is dangerous, are you referring to any teaching at all on the topic, or are you applying your comments to an extreme example? If wealth is dangerous, why did God prosper Abraham,


It is not 'wealth' or 'health' that is dangerous, unless a man 'puts his trust' (Mark 10:24) in them. What is dangerous is the [u]teaching[/u] that God's favour is evidenced in 'wealth and health'.

In most prosperity preachers this goes hand in hand with the declaration that the only reason that people are poor or sick it because they don't have enough faith. I have recently returned from Malawi where this teaching is making some headway. In the West this teaching is foolish, in Malawi it is obscene.


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Ron Bailey

 2007/5/3 12:52Profile
dohzman
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Joined: 2004/10/13
Posts: 2132


 Re:

Quote:
as far as I know, no one has ever spoken to a literal mountain and moved it

I think it was the story of FJ Dake (sp?), I'll try to find out, where this scripture was literally applied and came to pass, and as I understand it there stands a church on that very spot where God removed the mountain.


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D.Miller

 2007/5/3 13:21Profile
Koheleth
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Joined: 2005/11/10
Posts: 530
NC

 Re: Christ and Moving Mountains

Quote:
Quote:
Hi Ron. What is your point about Jesus talking about a literal mountain? Were you meaning that he wasn't trying to relate the mountain to other, seemingly impossible, situations?



My point was taking up your suggestion that the mountains that Christ moved were figurative. 'moving mountains' may have become a figurative way of talking about dealing with impossible situations but Christ's point was not about 'figurative mountains'. He was actually saying that real mountains could be moved by those with genuine faith.

The fact that he had just come down from the mountain and was in the locality made it possible to actually 'point' to 'this mountain'. He was not, in my view, talking about 'mountaneous problems' but simply revealing the extraordinary power of genuine faith.



Hi Ron,

I'm not quite following the conversation yet, but I want to. Let me share my situation on the matter and then you respond. I struggled for years with the idea of moving mountains and what Christ was trying to say and that I have never moved a literal mountain as my Lord was saying, until the thought that has already been stated occurred to me: how many mountains did Christ move? That is not the main focus, since Christ did say we would do greater works than he does, but the question I still have is: was Christ concerned with moving mountains or uprooting trees and planting them in the sea? Elsewhere, Jesus said, "The words I have spoken to you are spirit and are life." Yes, he was not referring to a theoretical, unseen mountain as you say. As he often did, he was pointing to "this mountain" to use in his object lesson, but I still do not conclude he was motivating his disciples to move literal mountains. It seems to me he is making spiritual statements here. If so, Christ and his disciples moved many mountains, otherwise they have failed in this respect.

Thank you for your patience and any response, if desired. :-)

 2007/5/3 14:05Profile
Spitfire
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Joined: 2004/8/3
Posts: 633


 Re:

Quote:
He was not, in my view, talking about 'mountaneous problems' but simply revealing the extraordinary power of genuine faith.



I suppose I don't understand how anyone could interpret that scripture to say that he was not talking about mountainous problems when he follows up with the line, "nothing shall be impossible to you." By that, it seems to me that he was talking about anything, any problem you might have. Nothing in the Greek means nothing. Which in this case would include everything from mountains to molehills. :-) Dian.

 2007/5/3 18:59Profile
K_DAY
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Joined: 2006/7/28
Posts: 144
Ann Arbor, MI

 Re:

Quote:

I suppose I don't understand how anyone could interpret that scripture to say that he was not talking about mountainous problems when he follows up with the line, "nothing shall be impossible to you." By that, it seems to me that he was talking about anything, any problem you might have. Nothing in the Greek means nothing. Which in this case would include everything from mountains to molehills. Dian.



Is the problem that this interpretation limits that passage to mountainous problems, as opposed to making a general statement about the power of unwaivering faith (that goes beyond just fixing our problems).

 2007/5/3 22:10Profile
Spitfire
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Joined: 2004/8/3
Posts: 633


 Re:

Quote:
Is the problem that this interpretation limits that passage to mountainous problems, as opposed to making a general statement about the power of unwaivering faith (that goes beyond just fixing our problems).



This whole thing started because I was answering a guy's question on what I thought about Andrew Wommack's ministry. I simply reflected on a that verse of scripture where Jesus said if we had faith the size of a mustard seed, we could move "this mountain" and then he follows it with "nothing shall be impossible to you." My point was that I don't believe we have even scratched the surface of "believing", which to me is what real faith is.

Of course, faith isn't just about fixing our problems in life, it really comes down to an acknowledgement that, without God, we have no hope. But Jesus did come to save us in every sense of the word.

I believe some people in life are living on a different level of grace than others because they believe what Jesus said.

Andrew Wommack's testimony includes a story of one of his son's who was killed (already had a toe tag on), and when Andrew got to the hospital and spoke to him, he was raised from the dead.

I honestly feel like there's a general air here on SI of throwing the baby out with the bathwater. I wonder how many of the regulars here would speak to their dead son to get up or would we just feel that it was God's will that he stay dead?

It seems to me that we should be careful of missing the truth in this verse of scripture, which challeges me everyday to think outside the bounds of my own human logic.

Here is a link to a video about a woman who carried her dead husband around for days until God raised him to life again. She literally went and picked him up at the morgue! Maybe some will think this isn't true, but, if it is true, it makes me wonder if I would have the faith to do such a thing as this woman supposedly did.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2575536377261580026&q=gradman

I don't want to be unbalanced in what I believe. I simply want to think like God thinks and if he says I can do anything, then I want to [i]do[/i] it! It's really about taking the limits off of God. If he's the kind of God who would raise a man who had been dead for 3 days and whose wife carried him around in a coffin, then, I want to be sure that I believe! Love, Dian.

 2007/5/4 5:09Profile
Spitfire
Member



Joined: 2004/8/3
Posts: 633


 Re:

I just want to say one more thing to follow up my last post. There is a scripture which says "my people perish for lack of knowledge." I wonder how many people would have lived during the black plague if they had simply known that it was the rats that were carrying the disease. People don't die from the plague anymore because, now we know. Perhaps there is more that we don't know...

Also, I want to say a word about personal promises. The woman in that video had a personal promise from God which was compelling her to believe that her husband should not die at that time. I believe that, not near enough credence is being given to personal promises. It was a personal promise to Abraham which gave him the faith to believe that he would have a son and the Bible is full of examples of God giving people personal promises which inspire them to faith.

I have personal promises from God which cause me to defy the facts of my life and press on in faith for the fulfillment of my personal promises.

God spoke to me audibly and told me that I would live to be 80 something and that I would do everything that he has put in my heart to do. I'm 49 years old, so now, when I feel like I can't go on, I know it's a lie, because God said I am going to live to be 80 something. And when I grow weary in pursuing some of my heart's passions, I remember that God said I'm going to do everything that he has put in my heart to do, and I press on in faith...Dian.

 2007/5/4 5:35Profile





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