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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : " The Book Of Revelation " ( finally understood )

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CJaKfOrEsT
Member



Joined: 2004/3/31
Posts: 901
Melbourne, Australia

 Re:

Quote:

bubbaguy wrote:
PS. the important point of the Bible is that Love, through the sacrifice of Christ, will endure and win in the end. why does anybody need more than this???



More to the point, bub, why would Christ, who exhorted us against speaking idle words, give us "more than this" in his Revelation, if it was void of relevance?


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Aaron Ireland

 2007/4/28 9:33Profile









 Re:

Quote:
I've got two words for anyone who embraces preterism, "wailing wall"

Literalist!!, you gotta love em :-P

 2007/4/28 11:32









 Re:

CJaKfOrEsT

As i understand it, the inclusion of the Revelation in the Bible has been considered controversial by many. (correct me if i am wrong)

the Gospels are simply enough for me and i don't want the complications beyond these (for instance, i don't believe the literal Genesis story, and believe evolution is true, but this doesn't push me into rejecting the entire book of Genesis as myth or mumbo jumbo, or the Gospels as not being factual in content.)

Christ's exhortations such as "love your enemies" profoundly changed the calculus of human relations and if humankind is to survive, then Christian love is needed worldwide. This is the whole point, isn't it?

why do you need more Revelations that this????!

bub

 2007/4/28 17:24









 Re:

bubbaguy said

Quote:
i don't believe the literal Genesis story, and believe evolution is true

Quote:
(correct me if i am wrong)

YOUR WRONG!!!!

 2007/4/28 18:16
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3693
Ca.

 Re:

WE are complete in Him now.


Colossians 2:4-14 And this I say, lest any man should beguile you with enticing words. For though I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit, joying and beholding your order, and the stedfastness of your faith in Christ. As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him: Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving. Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. (((((For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in him,))))) which is the head of all principality and power: In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;


Col 2:10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

Col 2:11 ¶ In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
Col 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with [him] through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

We don't need to wait until the rapture and our new bodies to be complete in Him. For it is the Christ in you that makes us perfect, which happened at re-birth, giving us Life in the Nature of God in Christ Jesus.

Colossians 1:27-29 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily. NOW! We are complete, we are being completed, we will be complete.

2Cr 1:10 Who delivered us from so great a death, and doth deliver: in whom we trust that he will yet deliver [us];

In Christ NOW: Phillip


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Phillip

 2007/4/28 18:59Profile









 Re: I am the resurrection

Philip, We certainly are complete in Him, I never doubted that for a moment. My last post was designed to draw out a subject for Nile and myself to discuss concerning preterism. I believe that we can be perfect in this life and we do not need to wait for the resurrection. The resurrection is a great mystery, to which Jesus said, "I am the resurrection and the life".

 2007/4/28 19:51
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

Quote:

why do you need more Revelations that this????!



This idea would qualify as a "canon within a canon," and is heresy. All of God's word is inspired, and all of God's word is profitable. These things were not written for mere fancy, but for our instruction, upon whom the end of the ages have come.

Quote:

if humankind is to survive, then Christian love is needed worldwide. This is the whole point, isn't it?



The commandment given to love our enemies is not meant for human survival, rather, it is meant for righteousness. In fact, the commandment to love our enemies might cost us our very lives! Indeed, it did cost Christ His!


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Jimmy H

 2007/4/28 19:59Profile
CJaKfOrEsT
Member



Joined: 2004/3/31
Posts: 901
Melbourne, Australia

 Re:

Quote:

bubbaguy wrote:
Christ's exhortations such as "love your enemies" profoundly changed the calculus of human relations and if humankind is to survive, then Christian love is needed worldwide. This is the whole point, isn't it?

why do you need more Revelations that this????!



Firstly, the Book of Revelation starts off by claiming to be Christ's own revelation to the church. If it's contents are accurate, then it would be the only book of the Bible that it actually written by Jesus, as dictated by John. If this is the case, then it is not a matter of why I require there to be a "Book of Revelation", but why did Christ reveal something to us?

Regarding "loving your enemies" (which would probably be better put as "loving your neighbour", as this would include enemies and friends, but that would be mere semantics) the Revelation unveils the final proof that, apart from Him, we are totally unfitted to love to this capacity. Not only that, but there is a final unveiling of the fact that humanity will logically choose selfishness over God, regardless of circumstances. It dispels the myth that people will tend to turn to God in a crisis, but will curse God for causing them to suffer. And this is only scratching the surface...

Ultimately bubbaguy, with all due respect, who do you think you are to set yourself over the Word of God, to decide what to, and not to include into his statements, especially based upon human logic? The proverb says that you are to "trust in the Lord always, lean not on your understanding, in all your ways acknowledge Him, and He will direct your paths." Sadly, it would seem that you don't feel that you need your paths directed by Him.


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Aaron Ireland

 2007/4/28 20:00Profile









 Re:

Quote:

crsschk wrote:
[url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=flat&order=0&topic_id=2411&forum=40&post_id=&refresh=Go]Edgar F. Parkyns on Church History - 10 Sessions[/url]

A real eye opening and challenging series towards perspective on not only this book, but what was believed throughout our wonderful history, this great inheritance of ours.

I heard Edgar Parkyns speak on this at a conference in about 1982. If I remember, he said there were several conditions on even beginning to understand Revelation (not in order):
1. It's a love letter from Jesus to His Bride. So you have to know and love Jesus
2. It's based on OT imagery. So you have to know the Old Testament well
3. It was written to a persecuted Church. So you have to be suffering persecution to really understand it
4. Forgotten the 4th one. Unless it was to have read Revelation through several times...

Personally I think the most likely meaning of the woman who bore the Man Child (obviously Jesus) is Israel. In Revelation a woman is usually a sort of composite entity. The Chuirch is the Bride, the false Church is the harlot. Jesus came of the seed of Abraham, so the woman who was carried into the wilderness is probably Israel?

Someone said that it can only be interpreted in the Spirit. I don't think there is an "absolute" interpretation in the sense that anyone can mentally grasp the meaning of all.

Thus the Word of God puts our puny human understanding into perspective. We can understand nothing (not REALLY understand) of the things of God - even the written Word -unless the Lord Himself reveals it.

And if He has it will only be the part or aspect He knows we (as individuals or a group - especially in times of persecution maybe) need to know.

And we will not boast of it.

Jeannette

 2007/4/28 20:18









 Re:

Quote:

JaySaved wrote:
Share only what you are led to share by God. Share only what you feel would be beneficial to your brothers and sisters in Christ and might be used by God to touch someone who doesn't know Christ.

Wonderful advice, Jay!

Forrest, I think there are many who would benefit from reading of God's workings in your life, and the battles you have endured, and come thrugh by His grace.

You have obviously been "refined in the fire" more than most! I have certainly been blessed already by your courageous, merry, loving spirit.

Jeannette

 2007/4/28 20:29





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