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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : " The Book Of Revelation " ( finally understood )

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crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: " The Book Of Revelation " ( finally understood )

Quote:
It ruffles feathers so tospeak and rattles cages, and so they themselves respond with [u]colourful characterizations of what your supposedly guilty of[/u]. ( this behaviour and that attitude ) etc



"[i]I well recall being present at a series of meetings where a "theologian" was bringing forth expositional teaching on end-time events and that chiefly - of the "book" of Revelation".

"I well remember to this day - how that when he came to the half-way stage REVELATION CHAP 12( that being the birth of the Manchild ) he took a deep breath ... and swallowing down hard on his adams apple, he launched into it and proceeded to instruct the class on what this manchild then "represented" and the interpration - OF IT !! hmmmmm "[/i]

Quote:
therefore judging others by acrimony or characterizations - has to be (spot on) - lest we fall into temptation and a snare.



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Quote:
"And He leaning hard - and falling back on his theological background and training ..."



"[i]The truth is known by those who stay with "topic" and contend with the issues discussed, and with-out resorting to characterizations - and the name calling.[/i]"

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Quote:
But With me like Paul it's a very small thing that i should be judged of man -



1Co 11:31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.

Quote:
You sound a bit frustrated, but I don't think it's bitterness.



Correction, it's pride.

But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned. Mat 12:36,37


_________________
Mike Balog

 2007/4/27 9:24Profile
JaySaved
Member



Joined: 2005/7/11
Posts: 1131
Kentucky

 Re:

Quote:
Don't start in Revelations. Start where I did - with Hal Lindsey, The Left Behind Series



:-?

 2007/4/27 10:06Profile
enid
Member



Joined: 2006/5/22
Posts: 2653
Nottingham, England

 Re:

JaySaved,

I noticed that too, but I just ignored it.

Revelation 1v1, 'The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants-things which must shortly take place. And He sent and signified it by His angel to His servant John.

If we are going to study any book of the Bible, we start with the word of God, after which we can look at other books, commentaries etc.

But, realise, whoever wrote the book etc, will still be flawed in their understanding unless it was given by an angel, as was John in the book of Revelation.

Realise also, it says in Revelation, things which must shortly take place.

That was two thousand years ago.

Guess the hour glass is running out of time.

Our focus should be on the return of the Lord Jesus Christ and on obeying His commission of making disciples of all nations.

God bless.

 2007/4/27 10:19Profile
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: The Revelation of Jesus Christ

[url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=flat&order=0&topic_id=2411&forum=40&post_id=&refresh=Go]Edgar F. Parkyns on Church History - 10 Sessions[/url]

A real eye opening and challenging series towards perspective on not only this book, but what was believed throughout our wonderful history, this great inheritance of ours.


_________________
Mike Balog

 2007/4/27 10:45Profile
CJaKfOrEsT
Member



Joined: 2004/3/31
Posts: 901
Melbourne, Australia

 Re:

Quote:

crsschk wrote:
[url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=flat&order=0&topic_id=2411&forum=40&post_id=&refresh=Go]Edgar F. Parkyns on Church History - 10 Sessions[/url]

A real eye opening and challenging series towards perspective on not only this book, but what was believed throughout our wonderful history, this great inheritance of ours.




[b]THE WAGON TRAIN[/b]
An Allegory
By Edgar Parkyns

During the years 1850 to 1890 there was a tremendous trek westwards across the plains from the eastern United States to the far west as folks looked for new homes in that magnificent territory. I want you to imagine that a young bridegroom has gone out west to prepare a home for himself and his bride, and in due course he is going to receive her. This is an analogy of Jesus going to prepare a place to receive His Bride, the Church.

The bride stays in New York for some time getting ready, and then she joins a wagon train going west. It's rather a mixed wagon train, with all kinds of people in it; but the only way to cross that area is in such company. Her bridegroom has sent her a letter from away out west, but the letter doesn't arrive in time to meet her as she sets off. It reaches her after she has begun her journey and has already experienced a few skirmishes with Red Indians in the Great Lakes area. She finds that her letter has been opened - those responsible in the camp have examined it but, not being able to understand much of it because it is written in code, they let her have it.

As soon as camp is formed for the night and she can get away into her covered wagon, she lights the paraffin lamp and reads her beloved's letter. How her heart thrills to the glorious description of him on the opening page. And then there are some very straight words of exhortation to her, how she is to behave and keep herself pure, and she takes all that to heart for she realises that there are many temptations as well as dangers on this journey.
But then she comes to a section of the letter, which absolutely bewilders her, about beasts and horns and mountains and all kinds of horrors. It just doesn't make sense, and so she hurries through that and comes to the closing part. She is very thrilled with what she reads there - it describes the time when her beloved will meet her. He comes riding onto the scene and takes her to be with himself. There is a description of the heavenly home, and the glories that will follow. She is thrilled with her letter and puts it away with a thankful heart.

At the earliest opportunity, next time they've formed camp, the wagons drawn into a ring, she gets away and looks into her letter again; and it puzzles her, all that middle section. Whoever is this woman in scarlet? Whatever is that terrible beast? "I hope I don't meet him", she thinks. Day after day she puzzles over the letter, and becomes more and more separated from the rest of the camp. They wonder whatever is happening to her, until someone says "Look here, there are a couple of Jesuit priests in the camp, why don't you go to one of them and tell him what's troubling you?" She says, "Thank you, I think I'll do just that."

She goes across to meet one of the Jesuit priests. He says he's been waiting for her to come to him as he's seen that she's very troubled, and asks what it is that she wants to say. "Well", she says, "it's like this - I have a letter..." "You'd better give me your whole confession", he says, "then I can put you right." "Oh no", she replies, "it's not that. It's a letter from my husband. It's a beautiful letter but the middle part puzzles me so badly I can't make head or tail of it."

He says "My dear, I know your husband quite well, and the leader of our whole party knows him very well, he's one of his closest friends. So let me have a look at your letter, I'll be able to explain it for you." So this Jesuit, whose name happens to be Alcazar - he's a Spaniard - takes the letter and looks at it. In due course he comes back to her and tells her there's nothing to worry about as her husband was writing about the skirmishes with the Red Indians that took place just as they were leaving New York, only the letter didn't reach her in time.

When she requests her letter back, the priest replies, "Well, I don't think it's good for you, it's obviously been making you ill" and it is with great difficulty that she finally gets it back with half a promise not to read it any more. But still she is not content. She thinks, "What on earth did my beloved write this long letter to me for, if it was all about those few little fights with Indians that we had at the beginning of our journey?"

Eventually she goes to the other Jesuit priest, whose name is Ribera, and tells him the story and he again offers to hear her confession. She explains about her letter and how the other priest said it covered things, which had already happened, and she gives her reasons why she doesn't feel that's a sensible explanation. He takes her letter, and when in due course he returns it, he tells her that the middle part is all about the future - after her husband has met her and taken her away. He says "You'll be raptured; I know it's not written plainly in the letter, but then of course it's one of those letters; you'll be caught away before any of these things happen."

"But what about the great beast that comes out of the sea?" she asks. "You'll never see him, he lives in a lake on the far side of the Rocky Mountains. Now come along and enjoy yourself with the rest of us."

So she thanks him and accepts this very reasonable explanation, especially on such strong authority, and presently joins in the fun. There's a magnificent woman in scarlet there, who introduces her to the leader of the group, who has been longing to meet her. They have some grand parties together and soon she's in the thick of the fun and wondering why she ever moped away trying to understand that letter when it didn't really concern her at all.

She gradually forgets the promises she made to her beloved; they fade into the background. She becomes more and more enamoured with the leader of the party. He tells her about her husband and says, "In fact, I'm his very best friend, I know all his secrets, and I'm here operating on his behalf so you can trust me." And she does trust him, until one night after the revelry she's almost seduced, and flees shaken and in tears. She rushes out to the perimeter of the camp and sees against the skyline two men keeping guard. She watches them for some time and then they see her and, drawing near, they say "You should be back in camp you know, it's not safe for you out here."

She says she can't go back as she can't trust anybody. The guards reply "You must go back, your husband told you to go this way - you'll just have to go." "But I don't know what to do, can you help me? It's my husband's letter that puzzles me." "Well" they say, "I dare say we could explain that letter to you. We know your husband well and we promised to keep guard of this camp and look after you. But wouldn't it be better if you found out the meaning for yourself? If we explain it to you, you may not believe us. Have you got any of your husband's old letters?" "Yes", she says "a whole bundle full!"

"Right - re-read your husband's old letters and look for clues, and we think you'll find the meaning of this one you're holding. Read them, Genesis to Jude, the old letters - the clues are all there."

So she goes back, thanking them, keeping herself separate from the revelries of the camp, especially from that scarlet woman. She looks in the old letters and begins to find clue after clue. She looks again at her husband's letter and it begins to make sense. She realises that the very people who deceived and almost seduced her were written about in the letter and she failed to recognise it.

From then on, she begins to notice the terrain as they cross a river, as they reach a mountain, as they meet a dangerous party of Indians, and she looks in the letter and there they are fitting into place one after another. Oh the excitement of it! She's getting near the end of the journey; she can keep herself pure now as she looks at the letter and watches events as they pass by so rapidly; her whole attitude is changed. She now has a new joy and assurance and feels that she is in control of the situation. She watches those two men on the exterior of the camp and signals to them happily. They can see now that she is going to endure to the end.
Situations grow tense, the enemy is drawing in and the evil in the camp is coming to light. Disaster seems to be rushing in on every hand. Suddenly, over the horizon, comes her beloved with a thousand cavalry, riding across the hills to her rescue to take her home. At last her troubles are over - the letter has done its work.


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Aaron Ireland

 2007/4/27 12:02Profile
CJaKfOrEsT
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Joined: 2004/3/31
Posts: 901
Melbourne, Australia

 Re: " The Book Of Revelation " ( finally understood )

May I also recommend the following series on the Book of Revelation, by [url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/viewcat.php?cid=528]David Pawson[/url]? Pawson is one of those rare men of God, who offers well balanced data, and while giving his conclusions, also gives clear "permission" to disagree. Overall, a well rounded dealing with many of the issues and controversies of the Book.


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Aaron Ireland

 2007/4/27 12:09Profile
CJaKfOrEsT
Member



Joined: 2004/3/31
Posts: 901
Melbourne, Australia

 Re:

Quote:

UniqueWebRev wrote:
Don't start in Revelations. Start where I did - with Hal Lindsey, The Left Behind Series (Reasonably accurate, although they never show the Devil I know, just some nasty guy with a lot of sweet talk, and good looks, and hardly any demons to help fight off the lusty, trusty, Post Trib Force!),Grant Jeffrey, Tim Le Hayes serious sudy of Revelation, his lesser study for non-serious Bible Scholars, (Still actually quite good), and all the other people with a Pre-Trib View - the others don't make sense in light of God protecting only the Remnant of the Israeli's that flee to the protected area, plainly spelled out in the Left Behind series, with suitable scriptures. I know - I've read all of them twice, and several over and over - there's some good preaching here and there after book 4 or 5. Or maybe it's 3 or 4.



Please Forrest, check out the series that Mike and I have put forward. When all you have is Lindsay and LaHaye to go by, the only controversy you see is "pre vs post" trib. However, the tribulation is only a minor issue. There is a plethora of differing interpretations of the end-time material presented in Scripture (particularly Revelation and Daniel). You may also be surprised at both the scholarship and simplicity of both Parkyns' and Pawson's work.

I find that my stance sits somewhere in between the two of them, being a kind of Premillenial Historicist of sorts (if you don't know what I mean, then you had better check out the two series to find out)8-).


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Aaron Ireland

 2007/4/27 12:20Profile
Psalm73
Member



Joined: 2007/2/15
Posts: 60
Arkansas

 Re:

Forget the quote and throw out all scholars renditions (particually from the 20th century and today). Tyndale was a man of mighty knowledge in the scripture and he obviously let's the words of God do the talking.
Thorow Revelacion different themes and symbols are placed forth. LIke the whore that rides upon the beast and the 144,000 washed white in the bloude of the Lamb.
However, God's scripture is revealed thorow the Holy Ghost, and it's up to him for you to understand it.
There is a lot of pain to be poured out by the seven angels unto men who repentnot of their dedes. Tyndale version 1526 moderntype faithofgod.net. Here's the bible leaf:
Revalacion 17:1-8 ¶ And there came one of the seven angels, which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me: I will shew thee the judgement of the great whore, that sitteth upon many waters,
2 with whom have committed fornication the kings of the earth, so that the inhabiters of the earth, are drunken with the wine of her fornication.
3 And he carried me away into the wilderness in the spirit. And I saw a woman sit upon a rose colored beast full of names of blasphemy, which had ten horns.
4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and rose colour, and decked with gold, precious stone, and pearls, and had a cup of gold in her hand, full of abomination, and filthiness of her fornication.
5 And in her forehead was a name written, a mystery, great Babylon the mother of whoredom and abominations of the earth.
6 And I saw the wife drunken with the blood of saints, and with the blood of the witnesses of Iesu. And when I saw her: I wondered with great marvel.

Remember the merchants weeping over her? Try this for filthines of her fornication; Nahum 3
Ezekiel 27:28 (1537 faithofgod.net Matthew's)
The suburbs shall shake at the loud cry of thy shipmen.
29All whirry men, and all mariners upon the sea, shall leap out of their boats, and set themselves upon the land.
30
They shall lift up their voice because of thee, and make a lamentable cry. They shall cast dust upon their heads, and lie down in the ashes.
27:31
They shall shave themselves, and put sackcloth upon them for thy sake. They shall mourn for thee with heartfull sorrow,
32and heavy lamentation, yea their children also shall weep for thee. Alas, what city hath so been destroyed in the sea, as Tyre is?
Don't believe this as a picture of the harlot on the beast?

Hosea 7 is a companion of revelacion; the men blasphemed God and repented not of their deeds?
Hosea 7:2
They consider not in their hearts that I remember all their wickedness. They go about with their own inventions, but I see them well enough.
7:3
They make the king and the princes, to have pleasure in their wickedness and lies.
7:4
All these burn in advoutry, as it were an oven that the baker heateth, when he hath left kneading, till the dough be leavened.
7:5
Even so goeth it this day with our kings and princes, for they begin to be wood drunken thorow wine: they use familiarity with such as deceive them


With love I proclaim it brethren, this is to be used to stop the mouths of all those that corrupt the picture of revalacion and make the prophets words to be already completly fulfilled.
And try the boke of Daniel, you will realize that he has already changed times and lawes.

Amen to the Lord Jesus Christ


_________________
Terry L Merritt

 2007/4/27 12:56Profile









 Re:

perusing this string on Revelations it is clear that y'all just haven't gotten the joke that God is playing on all serious Bible readers.

"Revelations" is clearly the most confusing, confounding, misinterpreted, argued over and downright Unrevealing book in the entire Bible.

God is having a big joke --a full bellylaugh-- and you haven't gotten the point yet.

bubbaguy


PS. the important point of the Bible is that Love, through the sacrifice of Christ, will endure and win in the end. why does anybody need more than this???

 2007/4/27 13:02
JaySaved
Member



Joined: 2005/7/11
Posts: 1131
Kentucky

 Re:

Quote:
Edgar F. Parkyns on Church History - 10 Sessions

A real eye opening and challenging series towards perspective on not only this book, but what was believed throughout our wonderful history, this great inheritance of ours.



I have been tremendously blessed by Mr. Parkyns lessons on Revelation. I highly recommend this study for anyone interested in the book of Revelation.

I have not heard of Pawson, I will have to take a look at that.

 2007/4/27 13:03Profile





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