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JaySaved
Member



Joined: 2005/7/11
Posts: 1131
Kentucky

 Re:

By the way, Calvin was not Catholic. He might have been Catholic growing up, but he definatly did not remain Catholic.

Even the Catholics themselves know this:
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03195b.htm

John Calvin

"This man, undoubtedly the greatest of Protestant divines, and perhaps, after St. Augustine, the most perseveringly followed by his disciples of any Western writer on theology, was born at Noyon in Picardy, France, 10 July, 1509, and died at Geneva, 27 May, 1564."

 2007/4/25 14:49Profile









 Re:

Quote:
I am sorry Krispy but I am not listening anymore to that guy



See... thats what I am talking about, and it's unfortunate. In fact, he says later in the series that Calvinists will get upset and walk away and not want to hear any more.

I still love ya tho, bro.

Krispy

 2007/4/25 14:49
JaySaved
Member



Joined: 2005/7/11
Posts: 1131
Kentucky

 Re:

Quote:
Perhaps you are not a pure Calvinist.



If by 'pure Calvinist' you are referring to 'Hyper-Calvinist' then I am not that type of 'pure Calvinist'.

This is why it is so hard to discuss Calvinism, people argue against a 'Calvinism straw man' that they are taught and they don't know what Calvinism truly says.

 2007/4/25 14:51Profile
JaySaved
Member



Joined: 2005/7/11
Posts: 1131
Kentucky

 Re:

Let me put it to you this way Krispy.

I know you are a strong advocate of the King James Version. What if I asked you to listen to a sermon that is against the 'KJV-only' believers and in this sermon the guy talked against those who believe that the KJV itself is inspired. He even went further to say that the Greek is not inspired, but only the KJV.

How would you respond? You would probably say "That guy misrepresents my beliefs and constructs a false belief that is easier to refute." He does not understand the true position of the KJV-only adherents."

Do you see what I mean? James Knox is argueing against a Calvinist straw man that is easy to refute, but does not properly describe true Calvinism.

Do you see this?

 2007/4/25 14:55Profile









 Re:

I dont care what Calvinism says... or Armenianism says for that matter. Only matters to me what scripture says. And because of that, I am not a subscriber to Calvinism in it's truest form. God [i]could[/i] have made us all robots, and predestined some to salvation, and some to damnation... but He chose not to. He gave the choice to man. That was His decision to make, and in His wisdom, He chose it.

Period. Thats what scripture teaches, thats what I believe.

Krispy

 2007/4/25 14:57
whyme
Member



Joined: 2007/4/3
Posts: 293


 Re:

I concur with JaySaved. I just listened to the first 15 minutes of the series and I don't think the pastor speaking ever read the first thing about the doctrine. If he did, then he has totally and knowingly mischaracterized the position. If anyone really wants a good, balanced biblical exposition of the doctrine then I highly reccommend the book Still Sovereign which includes the writings of various authorities on the doctrine like JI Packer and John Piper. Loraine Boetner also wrote a great work on the topic as well that influenced the theology of many current theologians and thinkers. I will certainly listen to the rest of the series you recommended but I am not optimistic about the preaching because Mr. Knox starts somewhere further out than left field out of the blocks in a confused attempt just to define the doctrine. Again, not intended to be arrogant just shocked that someone who seems to want to address the weaknesses they perceive in the doctrine would not understand what the doctrine is before launching a critique. Finally, it is a misnomer to call the doctrine Calvinism. Calvin held the view but the doctrine predates him by a thousand years ( St. Augustine )and quite frankly I believe very strongly was held by St. Paul.

 2007/4/25 14:57Profile









 Re:

Yes, Jay, I understand. The difference is I would have listened to the whole thing to see if he really got to the meat of the argument. Which I have done on numerous occasions.

Krispy

 2007/4/25 14:59









 Re:

So you both listened to barely 1/10th of the message, and shut it off.

Well, I cant discuss this any further then. Sorry guys. Thats not being very open minded not to give it a chance to even get started.

On to other topics... cya

Krispy

 2007/4/25 15:01









 Re:

Oh... one more question... as a Calvinist, do you believe in "eternal security"?

(I do...)

Krispy +---- not a Calvinist

 2007/4/25 15:09
JaySaved
Member



Joined: 2005/7/11
Posts: 1131
Kentucky

 Re:

Quote:
So you both listened to barely 1/10th of the message, and shut it off.



Does the other 9/10th's have a better understanding of true Calvinism? or is it just more of the same?

Yes, I believe in eternal security of the believer in that those who are truly saved persevere to the end.

Jude 1:24, "Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,"

Luke 22:31-32, "And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren."

1 John 2:1, "My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:"

John 17:15, "I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil."

Praise the Lord.

 2007/4/25 15:47Profile





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