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Nile
Member



Joined: 2007/3/28
Posts: 403
Raleigh, NC

 Are all Christians the Bride of Christ?

Ravenhill said in one of his sermons that he didn't believe that all Christians would be (or are) the Bride of Christ. That doesn't seem right to me. Is there is anyone here that agrees with Ravenhill? If so, what is your reasoning?

[b]EDIT[/b]

It's on the sermon titled, "Hell No Exits" at about 56:40.

Here is the surrounding context:

"Revelation 21, and verse 7 says, 'He that overcometh shall inherit all things.' You know, we've such sloppy theology [b]'everybody that's saved is gonna be in the bride of Christ' - I don't believe it for a minute. I don't believe that. How did God make a bride for Adam? Did He take all of Adam? He took a part of Adam. And When Jesus comes for the bride He's not coming for every believer I'm sure of that.[/b] What makes us get so arrogant and feel so secure that we're so holy and wonderful? Listen, if you can't stand an extra long sermon, (if you hear me often enough you'll hear them), if you get uncomfortable after an hours preaching what in God's name are you going to do in the millenium?"

Then he goes on to talk about other things.


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Matthew Miskiewicz

 2007/4/19 20:09Profile









 Re: Are all Christians the Bride of Christ?

The Bible's replete with examples of Hebrews claiming to be the servants of God, but they weren't.

Churchianity is replete with "Christians" who claim to be friends of Jesus, but they aren't. These are the vast majority of "Christians" who think they're saved... but they're going to hell.

"Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut the door, and ye began to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence you are: Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets. But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out. And they shall come from the east, and from the west, and from the north, and from the south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God. And, behold, there are last which shall be first, and there are first which shall be last." (LUKE 13:24-30)

Ecclesiastes said he searched and searched and could only find one righteous man in a thousand.

 2007/4/19 20:46
Nile
Member



Joined: 2007/3/28
Posts: 403
Raleigh, NC

 Re:

hmmmm, yes I would agree with everything you said.
However, maybe I didn't make it clear what the question was. Concerning the people who are genuinely saved and going to heaven - will there be a distinction between some who are the Bride of Christ and others who, though still in heaven, are not the Bride of Christ?


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Matthew Miskiewicz

 2007/4/19 21:09Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re: Are all Christians the Bride of Christ?

Quote:
That doesn't seem right to me. Is there is anyone here that agrees with Ravenhill?


Can you tell us which sermon this is? It would be good to see the statement in context. Thanks.


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2007/4/20 1:06Profile
Isleander
Member



Joined: 2003/8/9
Posts: 21
Wales - United Kingdom

 Re: Are all Christians the Bride of Christ?

I heard a similar thing said by a well known preacher/teacher from England back in the 70's, Brother G. W. North - who is now with the Lord. He stated that some believers “won’t be in the Bride.” But personally I have never understood this, nor tried to. Leonard Ravenhill and Brother North were from the same British Holiness background and, therefore, of a similar Holiness persuasion.

Could there be a link here? Is this theological concept derived from British Holiness teaching, or for that matter, Holiness theology in general?


_________________
Alexander P. Gillan

 2007/4/20 7:09Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

The real question, as has already been commented upon, is 'are all Christians, Christians?'


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2007/4/20 8:39Profile









 Re:

The way I understand it, the "church" is the bride of Christ. The individual is the adopted son.

[b]Romans 8:14[/b] [i]For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are [b]the sons of God[/b].[/i]

[b]Galations 4:6[/b] [i]And because [b]ye are sons[/b], God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.[/i]

[b]1 John 3:1[/b] [i]Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the [b]sons of God[/b]: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.[/i]

[b]1 John 3:2[/b] [i]Beloved, now are we the [b]sons of God[/b], and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.[/i]

You wont find the expression "Bride of Christ" in the Bible. This is where that comes from:

[b]Revelation 21:2[/b] [i]And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared [b]as[/b] a bride adorned for her husband.[/i]

Notice it says "[b]as[/b] a bride". It's symbolic, but it's obviously talking about the collective body of believers.

Krispy

 2007/4/20 8:50









 Re: Are all Christians the Bride of Christ?

As was said...the Church, all those who are "In Christ" are the Bride of Christ. Anyone who says anything different goes completely against scripture.

That's why we need to filter everything that any man says...yes even Ravenhill...through the lens of what is revealed in scripture.

 2007/4/20 8:56









 Re:

Quote:
As was said...the Church, all those who are "In Christ" are the Bride of Christ. Anyone who says anything different goes completely against scripture.



Yes, that is how people are getting off into this heresy of Bridal Mysticism, which is really getting a foothold in many Charismatic Churches.

Krispy

 2007/4/20 9:04









 Re:

Be careful not to discredit Leonard Ravenhill because of a misunderstanding of what he was saying. What the world calls the "church" and what God calls the Church are two different things. I have been confused and have even confused others when speaking because I did not differientiate between the two.

I think we should refer to the "church" as we know it as "the system" or "the institution"

and leave the word church to its true definition.

In Christ - Jim

 2007/4/20 9:05





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