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DesiJr
Member



Joined: 2006/1/6
Posts: 113


 Final Judgment Hell - What is it?

Hello,

I would like members of SI to share their thoughts on their understanding of what the final judgment Hell is. Is it fire, is it physical torture, ceasing to exist, eternal separation...


This post is NOT meant to motivate Christians to convince others of their understanding of what the Final Judgment Hell is, or to even respond to other posters that state their beliefs.

This is strictly to allow the varieties of views to be expressed and hopefully will spark a desire by the Spirit to have us as Christians to seek Him yet again to reveal Himself to us and His understanding...by His Spirit and His Word through His body.

Obviously not everyone's understanding is true. There is only one right answer. Only God knows exactly what it's like so anyone assuming to know exactly what it's like in the fullness of understanding is obviously deceived.

Please DO NOT respond to someone elses post to try and show them how they are wrong or to disagree with them. Please just express your understanding up to now and let the Holy Spirit do the rest.

 2007/4/19 13:42Profile
JaySaved
Member



Joined: 2005/7/11
Posts: 1131
Kentucky

 Re: Final Judgment Hell - What is it?

Revelation 20

7And when the thousand years are ended, Satan will be released from his prison 8and will come out to deceive the nations that are at the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them for battle; their number is like the sand of the sea. 9And they marched up over the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, but fire came down from heaven and consumed them, 10and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

11Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. From his presence earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them. 12And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done. 13And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done. 14Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. 15And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

I have always believed in a literal lake of fire, but I am perplexed by the verse speaking of Death and Hell being thrown into the lake of fire. Death and Hell are not 'things to be thrown' in a literal sense. So, I am beginning to understand that the lake of fire is symbolic for the real abode of the damned.

Hell (or whatever it is called) is described as as a place:
- With fire (Matthew 5:22; 18:9) that never goes out (Mark 9:43)
- No one wants to be (Matthew 5:29)
- Where God can kill body and soul (Matthew 10:28)
- Unbelievers are condemned to (Matthew 23:33)
- of torment (Luke 16:23)

 2007/4/19 14:00Profile









 Re:

According to scripture hell is hot and eternal. If an unbeliever is thrown into hell and just consumed, then why does the Bible describe wailing and gnashing of teeth? If you're in a fire it doesnt take but a few moments for you to pass out, and then die.

Mat 13:49-50 [i]So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just, and shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.[/i]

[b]SIX TIMES[/b] in Matthew is wailing and gnashing of teeth mentioned in connection with hell.

Suffering in hell is eternal.

Think about this... if hell meant we were just consumed and then ceased to exist, how bad is that? A few moments of terror, and then it's over. Those of you who think this, you would fit in well at a Jehovah's Witness Kingdom Hall... at least as far as your beliefs about hell. The only difference is, they dont believe in hell... you just cease to exist. They took the fire out for ya.

If there was no suffering in hell, then why should I bother getting saved? Live it up, die, burn for a few moments, then cease. Small price to pay for being able to party my butt off thru this life.

You ask what I believe... I believe what the Bible says about it. The Bible is a very simple book in the sense that it isnt that hard to understand. It is [b]us[/b] who make understanding the Bible hard. We try and look for deep things that arent there to be discovered, we take things out of context to proove our agenda is the right one, etc etc. (thats not pointed at anyone in particular... just making an observation)

The Bible says "...eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him."

Well, I think the opposite is true as well for those who reject Him.

Krispy

 2007/4/19 14:30
JaySaved
Member



Joined: 2005/7/11
Posts: 1131
Kentucky

 Re:

Hell is referred to as utter darkness. I believe this is symbolic like the fire imagery. Fire speaks of judgment. Hebrews 12:29, “for our God is a consuming fire.” Well, literally that is not correct but the language says that God is the ultimate and just judge.

The same thing can be said for the darkness.

Matthew 25:29-30, “For to everyone who has will more be given, and he will have an abundance. But from the one who has not, even what he has will be taken away. And cast the worthless servant into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”

Jude 1:6, “And the angels who did not stay within their own position of authority, but left their proper dwelling, he has kept in eternal chains under gloomy darkness until the judgment of the great day”

Jude 1:13, “wild waves of the sea, casting up the foam of their own shame; wandering stars, for whom the gloom of utter darkness has been reserved forever.”

Hell could be utterly dark—it is possible, but I believe the language is symbolic to say that those in hell will be without the light from Jesus. John 1:4-9 says Jesus is, “In him was life, and the life was the light of men. The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it. There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. He came as a witness, to bear witness about the light, that all might believe through him. 8He was not the light, but came to bear witness about the light. The true light, which enlightens everyone, was coming into the world.”

This is contrasted with the New Jerusalem in Revelation 22:5 “And night will be no more. They will need no light of lamp or sun, for the Lord God will be their light, and they will reign forever and ever.”

The bottom line is that hell is real and it is not a place anyone wants to go. 2 Corinthians 5:10-11 says, "For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive what is due for what he has done in the body, whether good or evil. Therefore, knowing the fear of the Lord , we persuade others."

 2007/4/19 16:34Profile









 Re:

I dont believe hell is symbolic. Jesus told the story of Lazurus and the rich man, and tho the story may have been fictional I dont believe Jesus would have given a fictional description of hell... even to make a point. The rich man was begging for one drop of water on his tongue.

That sounds to me like what he was going thru was hot, and was not consuming him.

You can symolize till the cows come home... but there is no getting around Jesus description of what punishment after death was like. If He was offering a fictional (untrue) picture of hell, then you must be prepared to say that Jesus was lying. But scripture says He was without sin, and Jesus said He was the way, the [b]truth[/b] and the light.

Krispy

 2007/4/19 16:58
JaySaved
Member



Joined: 2005/7/11
Posts: 1131
Kentucky

 Re:

Krispy,

I don't believe hell is symbolic either. I believe it is a real place, what I am saying is that the way Jesus and the bible describes it seems symbolic.

There is a different between symbolic and fictional. I never said Jesus was fictional and I certainly never accused Him of lying.

We agree that the punishment in hell will be horrendous and it pains me to even think about it, what I am saying is that Jesus used a lot of symbolism in His teaching to convey a point.

 2007/4/19 17:43Profile
Mangan
Member



Joined: 2007/4/19
Posts: 161
Sweden (Northern Europe)

 Re:

I believe that Jesus preaching on hell should be understood as a reality in the world to come (of which nature we do not know of)but explained in this world in a symbolic language.

M


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Magnus Nordlund

 2007/4/19 18:53Profile
DesiJr
Member



Joined: 2006/1/6
Posts: 113


 Re: What is Final Judgement Hell

Krispy,

First I would like to encourage you and tell you that we all love you and are thankful to God that you have made Jesus your Lord and Savior, I pray that you continue to search the Scriptures day and night and continue to be strengthened by the Spirit toward your communion with God through Jesus.

Now, I would like to offer everyone my understanding of Final Judgement Hell. It is based on conviction and the drawing of the Spirit to cause one to repent.

Let's look at 2 Thes. Chpt 1: 7-9

7And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,

8In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

9Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

It is my understanding by the Holy Spirit through much reading that we are given a great privilege as mankind----repentance.

Not even angels have this privilege.

So we have been given the Spirit to cause us to:

1. Have a conscience (we understand what good is only because God gave us a conscience) otherwise we be no different from animals. And we know that animals cannot repent.

2. Repent. Repentance is a work of the Holy Spirit that births in us a new heart and allows us to turn and see sin the same way God sees sin.

Now remember back to the moment of your own rebirth...and every moment since then as you are pricked to the heart each time temptation is creeping at your doorstep, and you answer. After we realize we have sinned against a Holy God the Spirit given to us by God causes this new heart in us to be grieved. This anguish of knowing we have offended God through sin brings us to a place of confessing our continued need for Jesus to be our Lord and Savior by faith given to us by the Spirit of God.

When we die...it's over... there is no more time to repent. Hebrews says....it is given to man 1 life and after that comes judgement.

Well for a sinner who never was born again the Word says in 2 Thes that the mere presence of the Lord Jesus and the glory of His power will be the everlasting destroyer of this sinners soul.

I believe that this sinner will come to face God...and in this revelation of God he will for the 1st time in his life feel all the sin of his entire life and the conviction that comes with knowing Jesus....Yet, he will not be able to repent because he denied the grace that was available to him while he lived on earth.

The weight of the conviction of all the sin bubbling up because of the revelation of the Love Jesus had for him during his life on Earth and the revelation of how Jesus longed to show him mercy yet he denied it....and the revelation of the love that God still even has for him at that moment this sinners heart will be in complete torture because of the Glory of God's great goodness and kindness and love...yet he will be unable to receive the Love that his spirit is desiring to have from God because of his sin ladden spirit. This will be the everlasting torment that is spoken about in 2 Thes. The fact that this soul will never be able to find peace with such a wonderful and perfect and loving God...will be too much for this soul to bear...and the mere Glory of God, the mere presence of His majesty without the wonderful covering of the Blood of the Lamb.....who can survive after coming face to face with the glory of God without the covering of our wonderful Christ and Savior Jesus.

This is my dim understanding, and I know that when my glorious Savior Jesus comes for His church all these things will finally be revealed to us in full understanding.

 2007/4/19 23:57Profile
SteveHale
Member



Joined: 2007/2/15
Posts: 191
NSW Australia

 Re:

Hell is not just a place but a being or a person.

I looked, and there before me was a pale horse! Its rider was named Death, and Hades was following close behind him. Revelation 6:8

Notice they are introduced as actual beings. Which reveals what Jesus was saying.

I tell you the truth, if anyone keeps my word, he will never see death. John 8:51

What he was saying was that believers will die but will not see the being or person death.
Hell is a phisical place of actual punishment where unbelievers are held until the second death which is the lake of fire. Then not just unbelievers but Satan,his Angels and the beings Death and Hell will be thrown.

And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever. Revelation 20:10

Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire.The lake of fire is the second death. If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire. Revelation 20:14-15

To believe that people are not tormented day and night for ever and ever physically is a heresy. Thats exactly what the jehovah witnesses believe.


_________________
Steve

 2007/4/21 18:53Profile
SeanHobson
Member



Joined: 2005/12/9
Posts: 150
Cleveland, OH

 Re:

Quote:
Hell is not just a place but a being or a person.



First i've heard of that..

Quote:
To believe that people are not tormented day and night for ever and ever physically is a heresy. Thats exactly what the jehovah witnesses believe.



I agree. ;-)


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Sean Hobson

 2007/4/21 20:57Profile





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