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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Some differences from the KJV

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Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri


As it happens... yes, it is. I did it quite a few years ago.

Did you type it all out also? That would be quite an undertaking.

Robert Wurtz II

 2007/4/27 8:30Profile

 Re: Some differences from the KJV

philologos said

As it happens... yes, it is. I did it quite a few years ago.

RobertW said
Did you type it all out also? That would be quite an undertaking.

JaySaved said
Tyndale sure could have used a spell checker.

Ron, this is great. Thank you so much!! Now, I've been thinking of doing that spell-check Jay asked for... Would you object?

 2007/4/28 5:46

 Re: Some differences from the KJV

I've been checking out Hebrews the last few days, and came to chapter 12 again, where I found this:

23 and unto the congregation of the [b]first-born sons[/b] which are written in heaven.

Is this correct, that 'first-born' is not referring to Jesus (directly) but to [u]all[/u] born again believers?

Is the reference to 'written in heaven', which is translated as 'enrolled' or 'registered', anything to do with the Lamb's book of life, or, is this something else - some other book or scroll?

 2007/6/28 19:00

 Re:1 of 12 from e-sword.

Heb 12:23 - To the general assembly3831 and2532 church1577 of the firstborn,4416 which are written583 in1722 heaven,3772 and2532 to God2316 the Judge2923 of all,3956 and2532 to the spirits4151 of just men1342 made perfect,5048

To the general assembly (πανηγύρει)
Const. with αγγέλων of angels, with comma after angels. Rend. “to a festal assembly of angels.” This and the next clause show what the myriads consist of, - a host of angels and redeemed men. Πανήγυρις, N.T.o , is a gathering to celebrate a solemnity, as public games, etc.: a public, festal assembly. Frequently joined with εορτή feast. See Eze_47:11; Hos_2:11; Hos_9:5. The verb πανηγυρίζειν to celebrate or attend a public festival, to keep holiday, occurs occasionally in Class.: not in N.T.: lxx once, Isa_66:10. The festal assembly of angels maintains the contrast between the old and the new dispensation. The host of angels through whose ministration the law was given (see on Heb_2:2, and see on Gal_3:19) officiated at a scene of terror. Christian believers are now introduced to a festal host, surrounding the exalted Son of man, who has purged away sins, and is enthroned at God's right hand (Heb_1:3).

And church of the first-born which are written in heaven (καὶ εκκλησία πρωτοτόκων απογεγραμμένων εν ουρανοις)
This forms a distinct clause; “and to the church,” etc. For εκκλησία assembly or church, see on Mat_16:18; see on 1Th_1:1. The “myriads” embrace not only angels, but redeemed men, enrolled as citizens of the heavenly commonwealth, and entitled to the rights and privileges of first-born sons. Πρωτότοκος first-born is applied mostly to Christ in N.T. See Rom_8:29; Col_1:15, Col_1:18; Heb_1:6; Rev_1:5. Comp. Heb_11:28, and Luk_2:7. Properly applied to Christians by virtue of their union with Christ, “the first-born of all creation,” “the first-born from the dead,” as sharing his sonship and heirship. See Rom_8:14-17, Rom_8:29. The word also points to Christians as the true Israel of God. The analogy is suggested with the first-born of Israel, to whom peculiar sanctity attached, and whose consecration to himself God enjoined (Exo_13:1, Exo_13:11-16); and with the further application of the term first-born to Israel as a people, Exo_4:22. The way was thus prepared for its application to the Messiah. There seems, moreover, to be a clear reference to the case of Esau (Heb_12:16). Esau was the first-born of the twin sons of Isaac (Gen_25:25). He sold his birthright (πρωτοτοκία), and thus forfeited the privilege of the first-born. The assembly to which Christian believers are introduced is composed of those who have not thus parted with their birthright, but have retained the privileges of the first-born. The phrase “church of the first-born” includes all who have possessed and retained their heavenly birthright, living or dead, of both dispensations: the whole Israel of God, although it is quite likely that the Christian church may have been most prominent in the writer's thought.

Which are written in heaven (απογεγραμμένων εν ουρανοις)
Απογράφειν, only here and Luk_2:1, Luk_2:3, Luk_2:5, means to write off or copy; to enter in a register the names, property, and income of men. Hence, απογραφή an enrollment. See on Luk_2:1, Luk_2:2. Here, inscribed as members of the heavenly commonwealth; citizens of heaven; Phi_4:3; Rev_3:5; Rev_13:8, etc. See for the image, Exo_32:32; Psa_69:28; Isa_4:3; Dan_12:1; Luk_10:20.

To God the judge of all (κριτη θεω πάντων)
Rend. “a judge who is God of all.” Comp. Dan_7:9 ff. God of all his first-born, of those whom he chastens, of all who are in filial relations with him under both covenants, and who, therefore, need not fear to draw near to him as judge.

Spirits of just men made perfect (πνεύμασι δικαίων)
The departed spirits of the righteous of both dispensations, who have completed their course after having undergone their earthly discipline. Notice again the idea of τελείωσις, not attained under the old covenant, but only through the work of Christ, the benefits of which the disembodied saints of the O.T. share with departed Christian believers. Vincent's Word Studies.

 2007/6/28 21:45

 Re: Some differences from the KJV

Thanks (again) Annie,

I was all ready to put a 'PS' to my post with Tyndale's marginal note on 'first born sons'. I had no idea there was so much embodied in it!

He picks out - and is always picking out - the things which assist our understanding in a most personal way (or at least, that's how I find myself reading him). This one is bound to make one feel particularly blessed, and hopeful, I think.

'First born sons, that is, the sons of God because the firstborn were dedicated unto God.'

Amen. :-)

 2007/6/29 3:06

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