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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : The Ark of The Covenant, part 2

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ADisciple
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Joined: 2007/2/3
Posts: 835
Alberta, Canada

 Re:

Quote:

dohzman wrote:

Heb 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

Yes. How can it get any clearer?

Perhaps those who are having difficulty with this--instead of just over and over again insisting that we need to be keeping the 4th commandment as given in the Law of Moses-- should seek to discover what God means by this "change of the law."

Sometimes I think it would be an immense revelation for people to simply understand the difference-- and it is an awesome difference-- between the Old Covenant and the New.

AD


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Allan Halton

 2007/4/17 23:18Profile
UniqueWebRev
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Joined: 2007/2/9
Posts: 640
Southern California

 Re: Sabbath

I couldn't care less what the demoninations say.

I care what the Apostles said, for they are our witness, and upon whose word we believe.

As I said, in the New Testament, the Sabbath law was not laid on Christians, but is and has been rigidly kept by the Catholic Churches, and those Protestant Denominations nearest to Catholiscm by [i][b]custom[/b][/i].

Regardless, since we are under grace, and follow what the Apostolic faithers did,(yes, faither's, not Fathers) or at least I do to the best of my ability, I refuse to give into this kind of legalism!

You can if you wish, but you are picking up a burden not laid on you. If you recall, Jesus said that 'His yoke was light'.

In Christ,


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Forrest Anderson

 2007/4/17 23:23Profile
sscr01
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Joined: 2004/11/29
Posts: 275


 Re:

The Apostles kept the Sabbath.

You should care more about what Our Creator and Lord said, "Remember the sabbath day to keep it holy." Ex 20:8

That is a commandment, not, a request.

"And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day, according to the commandment." Luke 23:56.

Jesus said, "If you love me, keep my commandments."

"For THIS is the love of God, that we keep his commandments," 1 John 5:3.

"And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?" Lu 6:46.

When we don't want to obey God, it is easy to charge "legalism."

"Blessed are the undefiled in the way, who walk in the law of God." Ps 119:1

The law crucifies the old man, and sets the new man free!!! That is what "walking in the Spirit," is all about.

"Make me to go in the path of thy commandments; for therein do I delight." Ps 119:35.

The true church keeps His Commandments:

"And the dragon (Satan) was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ." Rev 12:17.

"Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and have the faith of Jesus." Rev 14:12

And, finally, "Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city." Rev 22:14.

"And being made perfect, He became the author of eternal life, unto all them that obey him." Heb 5:9

 2007/4/18 20:39Profile
ChrisJD
Member



Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re:

Hi sscr01,

"You should care more about what Our Creator and Lord said, "Remember the sabbath day to keep it holy." Ex 20:8"


If I may, again, suggest that you give more attention to who God said this to:


[b][color=000000] Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the Lord that doth sanctify you.[/color][/b] -Exodus 31:13



[b][color=000000]And it came to pass in the seventh year, in the fifth month, the tenth day of the month, that certain of the elders of Israel came to inquire of the Lord, and sat before me. Then came the word of the Lord unto me, saying, Son of man, speak unto the elders of Israel, and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Are ye come to inquire of me? As I live, saith the Lord God, I will not be inquired of by you...


...Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the Lord that sanctify them." [/color][/b] -Ezekiel 20:1-3,12


'Jesus said, "If you love me, keep my commandments."'


Again, He said

[b][color=660033]This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.[/color][/b]

Saying also...


[b][color=660033]If ye keep [u]my[/u] commandments, ye shall abide in [u]my[/u] love[/color][/b]

...[b][color=660033]even as [u]I[/u] have kept [u]my Father's commandments[/u], and abide in [u]his[/u] love.[/color][/b]


Jesus also said,

[b][color=660033] My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and [u]they follow me[/u][/color][/b]



Chris


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Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2007/4/18 21:22Profile
UniqueWebRev
Member



Joined: 2007/2/9
Posts: 640
Southern California

 Re: Sabbath Law

sscr01 wrote:
The Apostles kept the Sabbath.

[b][color=990000]I know, they were all Jews.[/color][/b]

You should care more about what Our Creator and Lord said, "Remember the sabbath day to keep it holy." Ex 20:8

That is a commandment, not, a request.

[b][color=990000]True, Brother, but that was given to the Israelites. You may be as legalistic as you like, in whatever denomination you choose to follow, but it is not laid on GENTILES![/color][/b]

"And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day, according to the commandment." Luke 23:56.

[b][color=990000]Again, these were Jews in Judea, not Gentiles![/color][/b]

Jesus said, "If you love me, keep my commandments."

[b][color=990000]Jesus' commandments were to love the Lord our God with all our heart, soul, mind, and strength, and our brothers as ourselves.

The Jews couldn't keep the law. I can't keep the Law. You can't keep the Law. The Law was given to reveal sin for it's inescapable hold on us.

Jesus kept the Law for us, fulfilled it, and gave us grace instead.[/color][/b]

"For THIS is the love of God, that we keep his commandments," 1 John 5:3.

[b][color=990000]Jesus died for us because no human being, Jew or Gentile, can keep that law.[/color][/b]

"And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?" Lu 6:46.

[b][color=990000]Again, wasn't this why Jesus went to the cross, because neither Jew nor gentile can do the things which Jesus said?[/color][/b]

When we don't want to obey God, it is easy to charge "legalism."

[b][color=990000]True enough if you aren't trying to walk in the Spirit, which I am. It's not an unwillingness to do so, but an inability to do so, or why would we need Christ?[/color][/b]

"Blessed are the undefiled in the way, who walk in the law of God." Ps 119:1

[b][color=990000]True, and Christ, having walked it for us, being aware of our need for us to have Him do it, now sits at the right hand of the Father. There is no one else who is or can be absolutely undefiled through the Law.[/color][/b]

The law crucifies the old man, and sets the new man free!!! That is what "walking in the Spirit," is all about.

[b][color=990000]I know, that's why I do it to the best of my ability, with the help of the Holy Spirit, and Jesus, who is in me.[/color][/b]

"Make me to go in the path of thy commandments; for therein do I delight." Ps 119:35.

[b][color=990000]Amen.[/color][/b]

The true church keeps His Commandments:

[b][color=990000]You sound like a 16th century Jesuit. The entire church is in Christ, or not in the church at all.[/color][/b]

"And the dragon (Satan) was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ." Rev 12:17.

[b][color=990000]You know, I had noticed that. Hmmmm.[/color][/b]

"Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and have the faith of Jesus." Rev 14:12

[b][color=990000]In Christ is my all my righteousness. Having none of my own, I rest in Him.[/color][/b]

And, finally, "Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city." Rev 22:14.

[b][color=990000]Thank you. I will accept that blessing in the righteousness of Jesus Christ, since I have none of my own, nor am I foolish enough to try and get any.[/color][/b]

"And being made perfect, He became the author of eternal life, unto all them that obey him." Heb 5:9

[b][color=990000]Yes, I am aware of that. My obedience is faith, and the only work that is required of me. But I seek the gifts of the Spirit, and the fruits thereof every day of my life.

I spend 7 days a week trying to keep the commandments, and being grateful that my pitiful inability is made up for by Christ.

I also spend 7 days a week studying, worshiping, evangelising, and writing about God.

Do I need rest from God? What kind of sabbath do I need?

Do you want me to take Saturday's off, and watch TV?

Thank you, but I'll stick with what the Apostles laid on the Gentiles, and no more. They were under the direction of the Holy Spirit in a much more powerful way than we are today, more's the pity. And on Saturday's, as usual, I will read, write, study, and evangelize, because that's what God called me to do.

And on any evening of the week that I am not here at SermonIndex, or elsewhere on the net learning as much as I can about God, and if I feel the need, you can find me reading the occasional novel, listening to Christian music, or fellowshipping with other Christians.

So, what kind of sabbath do you want me to keep? My life is a sabbath!

Everyone on this website does the best they can to show their love for Jesus by obeying Him in spirit and deed, but we all rely on Jesus for our salvation, and the Holy Spirit to change us, teach us, and lead us.

But if you want to keep the law, there are 613 of them, and you had better start studying at a synagogue. You'd make a really good Pharisee.

In Christ,

Forrest

P.S. You know, this is a great sermon about legalism! It may be on my site for this Sunday.[/color][/b]



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Forrest Anderson

 2007/4/19 7:57Profile
sscr01
Member



Joined: 2004/11/29
Posts: 275


 Re:

The Sabbath was instituted at Creation and was made for man, not the Jews: Mark 2:27.

"A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit within you, and CAUSE YOU to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments and do them." Ezekiel 36:26,27. This is a promise.

The children of Israel said, that, they could keep the Covenant in their own strength, and failed to do so: "All that the Lord hath said will we do, and be obedient." Exodus 24:7.

When He writes His law in our hearts and minds (Jer 31:31-34; Heb 8:10), He gives us a new heart and His Spirit and "causes us" to walk in His law.

He is holy. It is impossible to walk "in the Spirit," and continue to transgress His law. When we fall short, the law exposes our sin, in order, that, we might repent. Repentance = change. Not by our might or power, but, by His Spirit, and that is a Spirit-filled walk. This is the path of sanctification. The Holy Spirit will not lead us into sin, or "the transgression of the law." 1 John 3:4.

His Spirit enables us to walk with Him in His law - in righteousness.

Emotions aren't enough. God warns us about following our heart: "Let not thine heart decline to her ways, go not astray in her paths. for she hath cast down many wounded: yea, many strong men have been slain by her. Her house is the WAY TO HELL, going down to the chambers of death." Prov 7:25-27.

Peter, James and John thought that they were right, but Jesus said to Peter, "Get thee behind me Satan!" Matt 4:10.

And Jesus said to James and John, when they wanted to imitate Elijah and call fire down from Heaven. "Ye know not what spirit you are of!" Lu 9:55

So, how can you trust in your own heart? We can't. Our trust must be in God's word, alone, or, we will be deceived, just like Peter, James and John.

There is, only, one way, that, we know that we love God and the children of God:

"For THIS is the love of God, THAT we keep His commandments." 1 John 5:3.

"By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments." 1 John 5:2.

As I stated before, when Jesus gave us the "Two Greatest Commandments," He was quoting the law:

"And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might." Deuteronomy 6:5.

"...but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the Lord." Leviticus 19:18.

These are a summation of the Ten Commandments. If you love the Lord, you will keep the first four. If you love your neighbour as yourself, you will keep the last six.

How did Jesus keep the Sabbath? By worshipping the Father, fellowshipping with believers, casting out demons, healing the sick...

"He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked." 1 John 2:6.

He is our example in all things.

Here is a great promise:

"If thou turn away the foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on MY HOLY DAY: and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the Lord, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words. Then shalt thou delight thyself in the Lord; and I will CAUSE THEE to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father; for the mouth of the Lord hath spoken it." Isa 58:13,14.

These are not my words, but His.

 2007/4/19 16:27Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
The Apostles kept the Sabbath.


Perhaps I have missed something... why do we say this? We know that Paul and others attended the synagogue which would have been on the Sabbath but that was as messengers of the gospel rather than 'sabbath-keepers'.


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2007/4/19 17:12Profile
ChrisJD
Member



Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re:

Hi one more time, sscr01.

"The Sabbath was instituted at Creation and was made for man, not the Jews: Mark 2:27."


Once again, the sabbath was given as a Law, to the [b][color=000000]children of Israel[/color][/b]


[b][color=000000]Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the Lord that doth sanctify you.[/color][/b] -Exodus 31:13


As to God's rest, the Bible says that believers enter into it


[i]For we which have believed do enter into rest...[/i] -Hebrews 4:3

[i] For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.[/i] -Herbrews 4:10



[b][color=660033]Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.[/color][/b]


[b][color=660033]Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.[/color][/b]


Chris


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Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2007/4/19 17:29Profile
sscr01
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Joined: 2004/11/29
Posts: 275


 Re:

So, you are saying, that, we can worship other gods, bow down to graven images, take His name in vain, profane His holy day, dishonour our parents, murder, commit adultery, steal, bear false witness, covet and walk in His Spirit?

How foolish!

"For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: Neither because they are the seed of Abraham , are they all children: but, in Isaac shall thy seed be called. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of promise are counted for seed." Roma 6-8

"Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham." Ga 3:7

"And if ye be Christ's, then are YE Abraham's seed..." Ga 3:29.

The Gospel has, always, been about Spiritual Israel - whether, Jew or, Gentile.

The ceremonial law was fulfilled and terminated. Everything else is for the believer.

 2007/4/19 17:35Profile
ChrisJD
Member



Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re:

Hi sscr01, hopefully for the last time on this.


"So, you are saying, that, we can worship other gods, bow down to graven images, take His name in vain, profane His holy day, dishonour our parents, murder, commit adultery, steal, bear false witness, covet and walk in His Spirit?"



[b][color=000000] Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.[/color][/b]




Quote:
How foolish!




[b][color=660033]...but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.[/color][/b]




Chris


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Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2007/4/19 17:40Profile





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