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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : 613 Laws of the Torah

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UniqueWebRev
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Joined: 2007/2/9
Posts: 640
Southern California

 Re: 613 Laws

Quote:

RobertW wrote:
Quote:
5In the time of Herod king of Judea there was a priest named Zechariah, who belonged to the priestly division of Abijah; his wife Elizabeth was also a descendant of Aaron. 6Both of them were upright in the sight of God, observing all the Lord's commandments and regulations blamelessly.

You will recall that the Temple existed at that time. All laws related to the Temple are impossible to keep. This is why many have adopted alternate ways to 'keep' those laws. They have developed a system of halakah to keep the Law relevant to the Jews.


Robert,

What do they do now, now that there are no sacrifices? Mitzvahs?

I know that many of the Jews are very non-believing, but that is their habit, after all, and ours as well.

But without the temple, what do they do now?

Blessings,


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Forrest Anderson

 2007/4/19 6:05Profile
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Joined: 2004/11/21
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Tulsa OK

 Re:

Quote:
Our society has no plans to be broken and contrite. And yet, that is the only path towards a new and clean conscience: through the forgiveness of Christ, and the application of his love in our society. iT is not about 613 laws. But sadly so many Christians are paralyzed by their obsession with laws, while missing the greatest commandment entirely.



Amen to that it is well said.For us christians what counts is faith that works by love.There is a law we have to observe and that is the law of the Spirit that sets us free for the law of sin and death.Christ is the fullfillment of all righteousness required by the law of Moses.

We are not called to keep the 613 mosaic laws but on the other side we need to watch against antinomianism. The 2 greatest commandments : love the Lord with all your heart..... and love your neighbour as yourself is the sum of all the law of Moses and this is the essense of the moral law that we need to observe and obey.


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Redi

 2007/4/19 6:20Profile
roadsign
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Joined: 2005/5/2
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 Re: to Provost

Quote:
Here was my last post(I am since taking a vacation from that forum )
Hey Troy and the rest of you accursed dogs


Provost, it sounds like you expressed some strong words.

Anyway, I understand your exasperation, and would certainly have felt like throwing a few hand grenades into that "nest" - to awaken the dead. (Of course only the Spirit can do that)

I've heard it said, “No experience is a waste.” May that forum experience draw you to crave a life filled with the Spirit, ruled by the law of the Spirit.

What is the fruit of that kind of life? (See Gal. 5:22)

Diane


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Diane

 2007/4/19 7:58Profile
RobertW
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Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
What do they do now, now that there are no sacrifices? Mitzvahs?

I know that many of the Jews are very non-believing, but that is their habit, after all, and ours as well.

But without the temple, what do they do now?

Blessings,



Sorry I missed this question. Practicing Jews generally substitute what are known as "acts of Tzedekah" for the sacrifices. These are acts of charity. There are several levels of tzedekah or 'charity'. Jews even believe in giving to those who [u]don't[/u] have needs. This, in some of their minds, is giving much in the same way as God who gives to all irrespective of rich or poor, etc. Giving anonomously is the second highest level. So on and so forth.

Sukkah 49b
R. Eleazar stated, Greater is he who performs tzedakah than [he who offers] all the sacrifices, for it is said, To do tzedakah (the root means justice) and justice is more acceptable to the Lord than sacrifice.

There is also a reference to Hosea 6:6. God desires mercy and not sacrifice. The RSV translates the word for 'mercy' as [i]steadfast love[/i]. It is sad that as God removed the sacrificial system that many of the Jews did not see John 3:16 in all this.

The word 'korban' or sacrifice comes froma a root meaning "to draw near." When you combine these concepts you can see that the idea is drawing near to God by doing charitable acts. This is why you might be walking down a Jewish neighborhood and be welcomed into the home, etc. for dinner. The attitude is one of showing charity to strangers even. It is deeply rooted in their expression of faith. But we are not drawn near to God by works of righteousness which we have done, but by His mercy He has saved us; by the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Ghost.


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Robert Wurtz II

 2007/4/19 8:44Profile
RobertW
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Joined: 2004/2/12
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Independence, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
Rookie's: What does it mean that man walks according to the spiritual influence of Satan?



I think it is a direct parallel (but the opposite of) )to walking in the Spirit. Folk are either walking in the Holy Spirit or they are walking in the spirit of disobedience which is essentially the spirit of antichrist or the devil. A person has to have a new spirit put within them. They simply cannot by good deeds reform themselves. Repentance is not regeneration- it is a step towards it. Regeneration is the process by which God takes man back to the Garden as an exact representation of that unfallen Adam. The world around us is fallen and our bodies are still subject to decay, etc.; but we are new creatures if we are in Christ. This is a divine miracle of God in our transformation. This is John 3:3. We part company with the old man and the carnal mind and are renewed in the spirit of our mind. This is a new creation. This is" I make all things new."




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Robert Wurtz II

 2007/4/19 8:57Profile
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Joined: 2003/6/3
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 Re:

Brother Robert wrote:

Quote:
I think it is a direct parallel (but the opposite of) )to walking in the Spirit. Folk are either walking in the Holy Spirit or they are walking in the spirit of disobedience which is essentially the spirit of antichrist or the devil.



When Scripture speaks that fallen man would know both good and evil, do you think that this speaks to the influence of the Holy Spirit (good), and the influence of the spirit of Satan (evil)?



Quote:
Repentance is not regeneration- it is a step towards it. Regeneration is the process by which God takes man back to the Garden as an exact representation of that unfallen Adam. The world around us is fallen and our bodies are still subject to decay, etc.; but we are new creatures if we are in Christ. This is a divine miracle of God in our transformation. This is John 3:3. We part company with the old man and the carnal mind and are renewed in the spirit of our mind. This is a new creation. This is" I make all things new."



We know that in addition to the 613 laws given on Mount Sinai, God also provided His Holy Spirit. How do you suppose this influence in men like David, Ezekiel, and Jeremiah enabled them to live righteous lives?

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2007/4/20 1:08Profile





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