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jimp
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Joined: 2005/6/18
Posts: 1481


 Re:

hi, this would mean that God stopped being God???? silly... jimp

 2007/4/17 17:09Profile
staff
Member



Joined: 2007/2/8
Posts: 1418


 Re: Did Jesus Go to Hell?

hi,
Their is definite scripture to say he went to paradise(the thief on the cross),I heard a preacher say that "The preaching to the spirits verses doesnt mean he went to hell and preached to spirits in prison but that its a simple misconception.The disobedient people of Noah's time were preached to through the Holy Spirit while alive but at the time of writing had become spirits in prison" and also Jesus said to Mary Magdelene if I recall correctly "touch me not for I have not yet ascended" as they were in the tomb;so he did not ascend to the Father til after his ressurection.
This is not to say that Jesus did not go to the bad side of hell but I'm not sure where the clear cut scripture is for that,maybe somebody has a verse on that,
rgds Staff

 2007/4/17 17:18Profile
SteveHale
Member



Joined: 2007/2/15
Posts: 191
NSW Australia

 Re: Did Jesus Go to Hell?

I do believe he went to Hell.For how long I don't know.

He was assigned a grave with the wicked,and with the rich in his death, though he had done no violence,nor was any deciet in his mouth.
Yet it was the the Lord's will to crush him and cause him to suffer, and though the Lord makes his life a guilt offering,he will see his offspring and prolong his days,and the will of the Lord will prosper in his hand.
Isaiah 53:9-10

For an indepth look on the subject have a listen to Paul Washers sermon " The meaning of the cross".


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Steve

 2007/4/17 17:35Profile
UniqueWebRev
Member



Joined: 2007/2/9
Posts: 640
Southern California

 Re: Did Jesus go to Hell

Quote:

staff wrote:
hi,
Their is definite scripture to say he went to paradise(the thief on the cross),I heard a preacher say that "The preaching to the spirits verses doesnt mean he went to hell and preached to spirits in prison but that its a simple misconception.The disobedient people of Noah's time were preached to through the Holy Spirit while alive but at the time of writing had become spirits in prison" and also Jesus said to Mary Magdelene if I recall correctly "touch me not for I have not yet ascended" as they were in the tomb;so he did not ascend to the Father til after his ressurection.
This is not to say that Jesus did not go to the bad side of hell but I'm not sure where the clear cut scripture is for that,maybe somebody has a verse on that,
rgds Staff



The rabbinical scriptures describe Sheol as a place where the spirits of men go to wait for Judgement. Two portions are set aside for the wicked, and one portion for the not-wicked, apparently.

According to our Scriptures, when Jesus won the keys of Hell and Death, He spent the three days in the grave preaching to the spirits in Sheol, which would include Adam to Methusalah. However, since Christ spoke of 'this day you will be with me in paradise', on the cross, he was presumably preaching to the spirits in Paradise, which might include all those dead, but not-wicked, up to His own death, since some of the less-wicked Jews under the Law would be in Paradise also.

KJV Luke 23:38. And a superscription also was written over him in letters of Greek, and Latin, and Hebrew, THIS IS THE KING OF THE JEWS.
39. And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.
40. But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?
41. And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.
42. And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
43. And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.


This of course is mostly background, not scriptural, but interesting in understanding how the Jews looked at these matters. It also seems to be backed up by what Jesus said on the Cross, as well as what was said in 1st Peter.

KJV ist Peter 3 18. For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the spirit:
19. By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20. Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
21. The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
22. Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.

1st Peter only denotes the not-wicked dead prior to the flood being preached to in Paradise, but if Jesus was going to be merciful to the thief, I am sure that the not-wicked up to His death would also have been preached to.

It may not be entirely scriptural, but it is within Jesus' tendency to compassion.

Blessings,


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Forrest Anderson

 2007/4/17 23:13Profile
polo247uk
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Joined: 2006/12/21
Posts: 26
Princes Risborough, England

 Re:

I am on the same line as JaySaved

Quote:
I could be wrong on this, but I always understood scripture to say that once Jesus died He went in spirit to Sheol to bring the Old Testament saints souls to heaven with Him. Once we in the new covenant die our souls immediately are in the presence of the Lord.Regardless, please don't think that I believe that Jesus went to hell to suffer for us. Jesus paid our sin debt on the cross and His resurrection was to give us life.



Just as the wicked man could hear Abraham the wicked would hear Jesus when he came to tell and take the saints

There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
Luk 16:20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
Luk 16:21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
Luk 16:22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
Luk 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
Luk 16:24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
Luk 16:25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
Luk 16:26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that [would come] from thence.
Luk 16:27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
Luk 16:28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
Luk 16:29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
Luk 16:30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
Luk 16:31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.


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Paulo West

 2007/4/18 5:30Profile
Forgiven1
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Joined: 2007/4/17
Posts: 30
Western Australia

 Re: Did Jesus go to hell?

I have to agree Jesus went to hell to preach and set the captives free. As we all know the old testament plays out in the natural (law) to point to the new testament of the spiritual (Spirit) to come. For interest read Zechariah 3 re Joshua standing filthy before God and satan accuses him before God but God accepts him and puts rich garments on him etc. etc. Surely this would have been a similar scene for Jesus too. By the way Joshua (Hebrew) and Jeshua (Hebrew) is Jesus in english. God bless and it was interesting reading everyone's comments.:-)


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Lissa

 2007/4/18 7:18Profile
UniqueWebRev
Member



Joined: 2007/2/9
Posts: 640
Southern California

 Re: Hell vs. Sheol - Did Jesus go there.

Quote:

polo247uk wrote:
I am on the same line as JaySaved
Quote:
I could be wrong on this, but I always understood scripture to say that once Jesus died He went in spirit to Sheol to bring the Old Testament saints souls to heaven with Him. Once we in the new covenant die our souls immediately are in the presence of the Lord.Regardless, please don't think that I believe that Jesus went to hell to suffer for us. Jesus paid our sin debt on the cross and His resurrection was to give us life.



Just as the wicked man could hear Abraham the wicked would hear Jesus when he came to tell and take the saints

There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
Luk 16:20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
Luk 16:21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
Luk 16:22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
Luk 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
Luk 16:24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
Luk 16:25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
Luk 16:26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that [would come] from thence.
Luk 16:27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
Luk 16:28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
Luk 16:29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
Luk 16:30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
Luk 16:31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.



Please recall that the above is a parable told by Jesus, who had the knowledge of the Father directing Him at every point.

Where the rich man was, was in Hell as opposed to Sheol or Hades.

Sheol/Hades is an 'earth time holding tank' so to speak, for the spirits of the dead before judgement, whereas Jesus was speaking from the viewpoint of eternity, with all judgements already completed, and thus, would know what was going on from the eternal viewpoint.

From my understanding of the Rabbinical teachings, Sheol/Hades would match the place under the altar, in which the Martyrs wait, clamouring for justice.

KJV Revelation 6:9. And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

Hell, from our viewpoint in time is not yet a reality.

Blessings,


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Forrest Anderson

 2007/4/19 9:23Profile
beenblake
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Joined: 2005/7/26
Posts: 524
Tennessee, USA

 Re:

Quote:
If the punishment for sin is just our physical death...then Christ didn't rescue us by His death on the cross...because Christians die the physical death every day.



Hey DesiJr,

The problem that you are incurring is that you consider the physical death of Christians to be equal with the physical death of Christ.

Christ said concerning His flesh in John 6:54 (NIV) "Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day."

What you must understand is that when we are born, we are born in a state of separation from God. We are just walking dust. We do not have within us eternal life. However, Jesus Christ was born of God. He was concieved by the Holy Spirit. In Christ was eternal life. John 1:4(NIV) "In him was life, and that life was the light of men."

The life within Christ is eternal life. He was not simply a man like you and I. Jesus Christ is God. His flesh was eternal life.

God is an eternal being. When a person sins against God, they have committed an eternal crime. Hence, this is why we goto Hell, a place of eternal punishment. We are sentenced to Hell for committing a crime of eternal proportions. This means our debt is also eternal proportions.

Your life, however, is not eternal. Fallen humans are just dust. From dust we came, and to dust we returned. And so, when we die, our death is not enough to pay an eternal death. It's like trying to pay off a billion dollars with a couple pennies.

However, Jesus Christ paid the eternal debt with His eternal life. The flesh of Christ held eternal life. Paul said He came in the likeness of sinful man. The key word is likeness. Christ was without sin. Though he looked like us, He was not the same. Our problem stems to back to the garden when we were separated from God. Jesus, however, had unity with the Father from birth through death.

His physical death, therefore, was enough to pay our eternal death. When Christ died, His eternal life was given as a ransom for our eternal debt. Therefore, when Christ died, the balance was zero. That is why Jesus said, "It is finished." In the moment Christ died, it was finished. Done.

Christ did not goto Hell.

In Christ,
Blake


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Blake Kidney

 2007/4/19 10:25Profile
DesiJr
Member



Joined: 2006/1/6
Posts: 113


 Re:

I agree with you 100%.

Blake, you say at the end of your last post:
"His physical death, therefore, was enough to pay our eternal death. When Christ died, His eternal life was given as a ransom for our eternal debt."

I agree.

So since Christ being all man and all God died.....He then did experience the spiritual death as well as the physical death and did pay the ultimate penalty for our sin which was not just death of the flesh but death of the spirit. Which is Hell.

But Praise God...death could not contain Him and He was resurrected for our life.



 2007/4/19 10:40Profile
DesiJr
Member



Joined: 2006/1/6
Posts: 113


 Re: Defenition of Hell

I think where we differ is our different opinions on what eternal punishment is.

If you believe that Hell is eternal torture with fire then I would have to disagree and that is another matter all together. I believe Hell to be simply eternal separation from God. Which would be a totally different post.

 2007/4/19 10:44Profile





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