SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Image Map
Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Is Limited Atonement heresy?

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 Next Page )
PosterThread
saltlicker20
Member



Joined: 2005/11/11
Posts: 57
Grand Saline, TX

 Re:

My head is still swimming on all of this...mainly because of this:

George Whitefield (my personal hero): Calvinist
John Wesley: Arminian
Charles Finney: In between as a Semi-Pelagianist

Two things they all have in common:

1.) Used by God to shake the world
2.) Called out as heretics in their time and even still today


Heck...even Wesley called Whitefield a heretic...what's the deal?


Obviously the Holy Spirit must not have received the message...


-DO
I Pet 4:2


_________________
DO

 2007/4/16 17:46Profile









 Re:

Quote:
George Whitefield (my personal hero): Calvinist
John Wesley: Arminian
Charles Finney: In between as a Semi-Pelagianist

Two things they all have in common:

1.) Used by God to shake the world



very true....

 2007/4/16 18:07
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

I would say, from an Arminian point of view, that while I don't believe in limited atonement (and find it amazing that anybody does), that such persons do not preach heresy. For my Calvinist brethren and I both acknowledge and have experienced the atoning work of Christ on the cross. All that is simply in dispute is the exact scope and effects that atoning work provided.


_________________
Jimmy H

 2007/4/16 18:12Profile
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

Just a note: What I would consider more close to heresy is the easy-believism and watered down Calvinism that Jerry Falwell preaches.

Such I am very tempted to say is a damnable heresy, for it suggests to folks that things such as holiness of life, commitment to discipleship, and daily following the Lord Jesus Christ are mere options a Christian has, but need not seriously consider should they choose not to. This is something Calvin never taught.


_________________
Jimmy H

 2007/4/16 18:16Profile
roaringlamb
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 1519
Santa Cruz California

 Re:

Both sides limit the atonement
The Arminian limits its ability to save
The Calvinist limits the amount who are saved.

Jesus Himself limited the atonement
Matthew 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, [b]which is shed for many[/b] for the remission of sins.

Mark 14:24 And he said unto them, This is my blood of the new testament, [b]which is shed for many.[/b]

Matthew 20:28 Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and [b]to give his life a ransom for many.[/b]

In speaking of the New Covenant the writer of Hebrews has written
Hebrews 9:28 So [b]Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many[/b]; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

Even Isaiah the prophet in speaking of the Messiah wrote
Isaiah 53:8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: [b]for the transgression of my people was he stricken.[/b]
Isaiah 53:12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and [b]he bare the sin of many[/b], and made intercession for the transgressors.


_________________
patrick heaviside

 2007/4/16 20:47Profile
vico
Member



Joined: 2005/5/25
Posts: 258


 Re:

isn't all, many?

you can find just as many verses that say "all", cant you?

Lets declare the whole counsel of God brother!

Acts 20:26 Wherefore I take you to record this day, that I am pure from the blood of all men.
27 For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God.

~vico

 2007/4/16 20:50Profile
roaringlamb
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 1519
Santa Cruz California

 Re:

But even the "all" statements do not always mean all in totality. For example in Luke
Luke 2:1 And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus, that [b]all the world should be taxed.[/b]

So how much did Mexico pay in this? Or China? We must understand that in this context "all the world" means the Roman world.

Many of the passages that refer to Christ being the Saviour of the world, are written to Jews who thought the Messiah was only for the Jewish race, and not for the World or nations like the Romans and Greeks.

Paul Washer has a very good message on Particular Redemption and Missions and it can be found here[url=http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?currSection=sermonsspeaker&sermonID=22007141746]Particular Redemption And Missions[/url]


_________________
patrick heaviside

 2007/4/16 21:05Profile









 Re:

"Heresy" has such a bad connotation to it. I would rather say that Limited Atonement is a false teaching, which misrepresents the work of Christ and misrepresents the loving heart of God.

Many sincere and God loving Christians have been decieved by this doctrine, along with the other 5 points of Calvinism, but I wouldn't call them heretics as though they were not saved. I would rather say that they were gravely and terribly mistaken.

Limited atonement, like Universalism, is derived from the payment or punishment view of the atonement. If Christ was punished for all, then none would be punished. Since some will end up in hell, it shows that Christ did not pay their debt, since they are paying their own.

My take is that there is no partiality with God. The bible says that what Christ did, He did for everyone. The death of Christ was not the payment of anyones debt, but Christ made it possible for the debt of all sinners to be forgiven, if they repent and believe. God required the severity of blood shed if He was going to forgive us our debts. The benefit of this wonderful offer is now extended to all people of all nations, which they can recieve if they repent and believe.

 2007/4/16 21:09
roaringlamb
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 1519
Santa Cruz California

 Re:

How many councils have declared Pelagianism, Semi-Pelagianism, and their not too distant relative Arminianism as heresy already? Not that they(the Councils) supercede Scripture, but when a view that was already cast aside as unbiblical comes back in another form, or even the same it does not change it.

I wonder how many of you have honestly read the beliefs of Reformed/Calvinist Theology before commenting? I once was Arminian, so what I say is based upon that background.

May I suggest reading "The Death of Death in the Death of Christ" by John Owen, or "A Display of Arminianism" by John Owen.

I started out once to disprove the Five points, but instead ended up seeing the Scriptural truth and validity of them, and have been moved to that belief.

Jesse I guess I am blessed to be "deceived"


_________________
patrick heaviside

 2007/4/16 21:22Profile









 Re:

I have read parts of the works of Augustine and parts of the work of Calvin. While I scripturally disagree with both of them, there is still advantage in reading their works in order to fully understand their views. It is my intention to complete their works within a year.

My favorite theologian however is Gordon Olson. I am reading a lot of his stuff along with reading Jonathon Edwards (who I do not agree with either) and others. One of the greatest theologians since the Apostle Paul seems to have been Charles Finney. I cherish his writings. They are life while so much theology is a dry and dusty rotten corpes.

If I was predestined to be a Calvinist, I will inevitably become one. Until then, I will exercise my free will and remain an Armenian. :)

 2007/4/16 21:25





©2002-2020 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Privacy Policy