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repentcanada
Member



Joined: 2005/5/9
Posts: 659


 Money Matters

This is an excerpt from Zac Poonen's "The Truth that We Believe":

Regarding offerings, God's Word is clear that it is wrong to receive money from unbelievers for God's work (3 Jn.7). Offerings must therefore not be taken in meetings where unbelievers are present. All giving by believers must also be voluntary and secret (2 Cor.9:7). It is wrong to send reports of the work to others, with the intention of obtaining money from them (even if such reports are called `prayer letters').

I think that this is rock solid doctrine. Oh that churches would be beyond reproach and not give the impression that they love money! I saw how eager they were to pass the collection plates around at Easter time, when many visitors were present.

As well, I believe Scripturally it is wrong for us to present our OWN personal needs to others. I know Ravenhill spoke on this quite abit. Why don't we trust God completely as we minister the Gospel? If we truly are doing the Lord's work He shall provide!

 2007/4/11 9:05Profile
PaulWest
Member



Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas

 Re: Money Matters

Quote:
I saw how eager they were to pass the collection plates around at Easter time, when many visitors were present.



Yes, Ricky. I saw it too. Everything came to a standstill as the plate was passed around. To relieve the tension, pastors will often have the praise-and-worship team play some "intermission" music. It's all steeped in tradition. I remember hearing Ravenhill say that a certain church offered him ministerial position (I can't remember if it was him, or another preacher), and he said he would accept [i]only[/i] if they would meet certain stipulations:

1. That the staff would meet with him weekly and before each service for intense periods of intercessory prayer and supplication.

2. That they abolish the collections.

The church accepted, and agreed to his conditions. The church flourished.


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Paul Frederick West

 2007/4/11 9:27Profile
Compton
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 2732


 Re:

Quote:
I saw how eager they were to pass the collection plates around at Easter time, when many visitors were present.

How can a breed of men so educated in scripture be so ignorant of right and wrong? Mere common decency, the kind of social virtue found in the world, is more then enough to know better then this.

MC


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Mike Compton

 2007/4/11 9:50Profile
PreachParsly
Member



Joined: 2005/1/14
Posts: 2164
Arkansas

 Re:

We "pass the plate" in our church although I don't think I have ever heard my pastor preach a message about "titheing" or anything like that. We're not money hungry at all. I wish we didn't "pass the plate" but rather just have a box where you can give.


_________________
Josh Parsley

 2007/4/11 11:40Profile
PaulWest
Member



Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas

 Re:

The Jehovah's Witnesses actually have the right idea when it comes to giving. In their Kingdom Halls is a collection box that they keep at the back...and there it stays, and the members willfully put in as much as they feel led, privately. As you well know, the Watchtower has always had suffcient funds to carry on its poisonous agenda.

Does anyone here on SI attend an Evangelical church that practices something like this? I don't think I've ever been in one. I know that [i]after[/i] collections are taken up, the Pastor sometimes announces that an [i]additional[/i] plate is there on the way out...for any [i]additional[/i] gifts for missions, youth outreaches, etc.

People shouldn't be put on the spot with a deacon or usher staring at you while you slip a check into a basket. If you happen not to give that week, it can be uncomfortable knowing others immediately notice. I think it makes visitors uncomfortable, and perhaps feel obligated to put in a 5 dollar bill - though not out of a cheerful heart, but because of pressure and obligatory ethics.

Brother Paul


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Paul Frederick West

 2007/4/11 11:59Profile
BenBrockway
Member



Joined: 2006/5/31
Posts: 427


 Re:

If the Lord leads me to ever start a church, I am becoming more and more convinced, that tithing should be done "unseen." I think that boxes in the back of the church is the way to go. I think it is sad that many churches have become so obsessed with money. I've been to some churches where the pastor will say, "I would just like to say thanks to John Doe for his $50,000 in tithes last week for such and such a thing..." It reminds me of the prideful pharisees in Scripture who made it known how much they gave and wanted (or got) some kind of recognition for it. Jesus was against it.

 2007/4/11 12:05Profile









 Re: Money Matters

Quote:

Repentcanada:
As well, I believe Scripturally it is wrong for us to present our OWN personal needs to others. I know Ravenhill spoke on this quite abit. Why don't we trust God completely as we minister the Gospel? If we truly are doing the Lord's work He shall provide!



"Let us see that we keep God before our eyes; that we walk in His ways and seek to please and glorify Him in everything, great and small. [b]Depend upon it, God's work, done in God's way, will never lack God's supplies."[/b] -Hudson Taylor

We use a box in the back of our church and it works quite well.

By not taking an offering during the church service it allows the time to be spent on the more important things, the Word of God and prayer.

 2007/4/11 12:09
Compton
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 2732


 Re:

I wasn't objecting so much to the accepted practice of tithing, but to the plate being passed around on the one day in the year when half of the 'audience' are first time Eastor visitors.


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Mike Compton

 2007/4/11 12:12Profile
PaulWest
Member



Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas

 Re:

Quote:
By not taking an offering during the church service it allows the time to be spent on the more important things, the Word of God and prayer



Yes, sister Joy, I agree. I remember when we went to see Keith Daniel in Mabank, how a humble little plate was in the back at the table, with no extravagent mention beforehand of giving to his ministry. He goes by faith and believes God humbly for all his provision. If one's heart is right with God, and he has the means to give, and he is sitting under a ministry of holy, holy preaching...oh, the Holy Ghost Himself will impress it upon you to give generously and cheerfully, so thankful to God you will be to sit under such a man of God.

It was a great pleasure to give back to God through brother Keith - and without the embarassing "plate pressure." Oh, that more fellowships would trust God in this way. I am glad your church is like this!


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Paul Frederick West

 2007/4/11 12:17Profile
BenBrockway
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Joined: 2006/5/31
Posts: 427


 Re:

Quote:

Compton wrote:
I wasn't objecting so much to the accepted practice of tithing, but to the plate being passed around on that one day in the year when half of the 'audience' are first time Eastor visitors.



I agree Compton, that there is an underlying pressure on the "newbies" to participate in tithing, as well. I have gone to churches, other than my home church, on a holiday, and believe me, I myself have felt that unwanted pressure. Now, I don't believe I ever gave in, but that sad thing is that it sometimes almost feels as if all eyes are on you, and if you don't give in tithing then you'll be "damned" to hell. It's sad.

 2007/4/11 12:18Profile





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