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PaulWest
Member



Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas

 Why do some preachers pray in KJV vernacular?

I'm sure this is a topic that has roused everyone's curiosity at one time or another. You hear a preacher speak in modern, contemporary speech - and expound scripture in modern, contemporary speech...but when it comes time to pray, he bows his head and begins in 17th century English, "I praise [i]Thee,[/i] O Lord, that Thou art faithful and canst do all things..."

Why do you think this is? Is it because it renders an increased sense of holiness in the delivery? Or is it because of years and years of accustoming oneself to the Word of God in the KJV? Are there any in these forums that address God as "Thou" in closet prayer? If so, do you address Him as "Thou" in public prayer as well? Do you go back and forth?

To dispell any embarassment on this thread, I will be the first here to confess to addressing God as "Thou" in private. I don't know why or how this started - it just seemed right and natural and good and deep and soothing and spiritual. It was rather odd at first, but like tongues, the more I surrendered and gazed upon Jesus, the more comfortable and natural it became. I am apprehensive, however, to pray in such a way before a group of people (especially before the more younger, "hipper" believers), not because I am ashamed, but because I don't want to be a stumbling block and divert their attention to me. They might think I'm trying to put on some kind of "holier-than-thou" persona, and although this is not true, why even give rise to the occasion?

Has anyone else gone through something like this, either making peace with it, or abandoning such practices? I've noticed that since I've started memorizing Bible chapters, that the temptation to pray in such a way has only [i]increased[/i] and become even more spontaneous.

No mocking, please. Let's deal with this rationally and seriously and soberly. I would like some feedback!

Brother Paul





_________________
Paul Frederick West

 2007/4/10 12:28Profile
roaringlamb
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 1519
Santa Cruz California

 Re: Why do some preachers pray in KJV vernacular?

You have pretty much summed up my "prayer language" as well. I too in private pray with thees and thous, as it seems reverential. I do not know how or why, it simply happened.

As I read more and more of the KJV, Puritan writings etc. perhaps they have influenced me more than I know. Like you though in public, I do not pray this way, and for the same reason. I have realized that there are enough people who have trouble praying with someone else and the last thing they need is to feel they have been "one upped" or "lesser" because they pray in modern language.

I see no problem with it so long as we do not allow it to become a source of pride, for what do we have that we have not received, and if we have received it then why should we boast?


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patrick heaviside

 2007/4/10 12:40Profile









 Re: Why do some preachers pray in KJV vernacular?

Never thought of it except to think it sounds a bit unnatural when preachers pray publically like this.

I pray as I speak,more or less, in spite of having been brought up on the KJV. It's still my preferred version for private reading.

But its not the words that we pray but the heart of the pray-er, as has been said.

Bro Paul, don't worry. I think most here would have sense enough not to want to mock you, :-)

Jeannette

 2007/4/10 12:57
PaulWest
Member



Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas

 Re:

The Lord bless you, my dear friend.

Quote:
As I read more and more of the KJV, Puritan writings etc. perhaps they have influenced me more than I know.



Yes, yes, undoubtedly, yes. These are factors!

Quote:
I see no problem with it so long as we do not allow it to become a source of pride, for what do we have that we have not received, and if we have received it then why should we boast?



These are the breathings of my heart as well. Forbid it Lord that I should boast, save in the death of Christ my God. Perhaps one day God will allow me to pray in such a bold way, in public. A large contributer to my apprehension has been the open mockery of well-meaning preachers to this kind of praying. I've heard it mocked straight from the pulpit of God, and it causes me inner pain and confusion [i]because they are talking about what I do.[/i] It is wonderful to know others pray in the same way, and with all humility.

Again, bless you, dear friend.

Brother Paul


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Paul Frederick West

 2007/4/10 12:58Profile









 Re:

Brother Paul, what i am about to say will defintely "hijack" the thread. My question is, How about singing hmmm? how about that? it bothers me, has bothered me, for a long time, forexample when in the middle of a song the key changes....i feel,at the least, it's discontinuous of the atmosphere of worship, at best- it's idolizing something that in of itself has no worth. I am dead serious about music. sometimes, when forexample in hymns or other christian songs, the person is stretching a note, or singing in a different (supposedly elevated hollier way) than that of they would be doing if they were speaking the words- i confess i really get angry and indignant. i am more than willing to see the errors of my ways, but also- i would like to mention i believe i have concrete reasons for my objections. any one would like to comment please? sorry brother Paul for hijacking your discussion.

 2007/4/10 13:08
roaringlamb
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 1519
Santa Cruz California

 Re:

I think I see what you are getting at, and I agree that we must be aware of anything that puts the focus upon us. But, do you know for a fact that said person was indeed singing to impress man? or could it be they were being blessed by the song and thus sang differently?

There are so many factors that can lead to misunderstandings and tensions, thus it is always important to go the person and ask in love if that was indeed what they meant or said. I have not always done this, and it has caused many problems that were figments of my imagination and pride. By the grace of God, I have been able to ask, and confront some of those who have been mistaken, or were definately wrong, and it has not been easy. But there has been a clearing up of sorts.

All this to say, judge not according to outward appearances, but ask if what was done was intentional or a mistake, and do it in love and mercy as you would want someone to do with you.

Blessings to you, and may God grant you the grace needed to do this.


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patrick heaviside

 2007/4/10 13:21Profile
PaulWest
Member



Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas

 Re:

Quote:
it bothers me, has bothered me, for a long time, forexample when in the middle of a song the key changes



Hi, and welcome to the thread!

What do you mean about "key changes"? Most hymns don't really change keys in the sense of starting in, say E and transitioning to Bb minor; hymns usually modulate to the relative minor or dominant, but most always resolve back to the tonic in the end. Simple chord progessions, and melody. For example, if a hymn is in G, you'll probably rest in D for awhile and possibly C or E minor. In four-part harmony you may have a simple modulation going to to the dominant, and this is quite necessary! This flowing of the melodic lines is necessary to avoid monotonous, modal chanting, or making the song seem trance-like.

How do you feel Christians should sing music and express melody to God that would not give a pretense of elevated holiness? By the way, I agree that heightened emotional expressions can indeed draw all the attention to the singer and take it off God.

Brother Paul


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Paul Frederick West

 2007/4/10 13:22Profile









 Re: Why do some preachers pray in KJV vernacular?

Hmm, when I read your post, brother Paul, I thought ‘how [i]do I[/i] pray?’ I’ve not really thought about this too much. I think that praying in KJV vernacular is a result of praying Scripture. In the prayer meetings I’m a part of on a regular basis we usually pray through a Psalm or another passage of Scripture. After years of doing that phrases of Scripture will often slip into my prayers. What better way to praise God than to use His Word! And that is where the ‘Thous, Thees, and Thys’ would probably be used by me.

As for praying in public versus my personal prayer closet…I don’t [i]think[/i] I purposely pray differently (maybe I do and just don't realize it!). It’s a constant challenge to me not to form prayers so as to gain the praise of man. That is where pride can subtly enter in. And then in what way is my prayer different than that of the Pharisee in Luke 18:11-12!!?

We are praying to the same God in our prayer closet as in public! Are we being led by the Holy Spirit when we pray? When I pray I seek to first totally surrender myself to God and then ask God for a spirit of prayer (Luke 11:7). He is faithful to guide us, even in our praying, if we seek Him.

It is “The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man [that] availeth much.” James 5:16

Those were my thoughts in relation to how I pray in relation to King James English. On a lighter note...when I was watching some Shakespeare plays it did start to affect my every day language, it kinda grows on you! :-P

 2007/4/10 13:31









 Re:

I think it's part training by hearing, and part an expression of the influence of the KJV. In other words, we may have grown up hearing people pray like that, so we're used to it. Also, if you read and study the KJV you become very familiar with the ebb and flow of that type of English, and therefore it flows out.

I dont think it's a bad thing, just a thing.

I love it when people who reject the KJV as being "too hard to understand" turn around and pray in the king's English.

Krispy

 2007/4/10 13:37
JaySaved
Member



Joined: 2005/7/11
Posts: 1132
Missouri

 Re:

The KJV is a great version of the bible. I do find it interesting when people pray in the "King's English". I don't see it as wrong, but I do know that it can become a sense of pride.

What I find humorous is when a "KJV-only" pastor will modernize the KJV when reading in a sermon.

For example, Matthew 5:43 "Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy."

Read as "Ye have heard that it hath been said, You shall love thy neighbour, and hate your enemy."

 2007/4/10 13:45Profile





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