Brothers Paul and Jim, i think you are really on the same side and in agreement with each other. It is so easy to misread what is said in text.

I feel that there is a bond of unity and love there and that your hearts are both in the right place concerning this disscussion.

God Bless you my brothers!

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George Platt

Brothers, i hope you dont mind me continuing this discussion, but as a youth pastor i have been thinking about dealing with the issue of pornography with young men who confesses to me they have this problem, which two have in my youth group already have (and i am sure there represent a lot of others that may be struggling with it, but not so bold as to speak to me about it).

I have found it very difficult counseling on this issue because with the two guys that have come to me, from observing them i have had my doubts about them being truly saved for a while (ie, they both really struggle to pray out loud in our bible study, and i dont see a real love for Jesus Christ flowing from them in any outward visible ways, which always concerns me). So in counseling people to do with this issue, it is neccessary to try and discern the persons true relation to God first would you agree?

It is a real difficult one because i have fallen into this sin myself and yet i am pretty sure i am saved (although i still do examine myself to see if this is so), and so the ways in which we would counsel someone who is a true Christian but struggling, would be very different from someone who thinks themself a Christian because they've said the prayer etc (you can tell im a big Paul Washer fan!) but who is actually deceived.

I guess this raises another question of what signs do we look for in someone who is genuinely saved. (I listened to a great sermon on this by Paul Washer last night called 'Examine yourself').

But you see guys i think it is probably possible to beat a pornography problem with sheer will power and any man could do it without the Holy Ghost (because there are people out there not saved who dont struggle with this), but without the Holy Ghost you could not break the chains of inward lust that afflict you in your every day life. And even if you could it would be tragic if as a lot of people you think yourself saved because you are are not committing 'outward sins' and yet you are not saved and that is evidenced by a lack of what Edwards would call 'religious affections', i.e. true affection toward God and Christ and a love of holiness and a measure of hatred of sin.

I just don't want to counsel guys about how to beat pornography when actually what they need is to get saved. Do you understand what i mean? We really need discernment from the Lord on this to discern between the true struggling believer and the deceieved unregenerate 'Christianised' person. I guess as we get more into His Word and come to know and walk with Christ more intimately this will come.

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George Platt

Here4Him-

I totally understand. Are you dealing with a fallen brother, a false convert or a willful and rebelious one who is trampling the son of God underfoot and despising the spirit of grace?

These are tough questions that we must seek discerment on. There is no use in telling a false convert to stop sinning, they must be born again first...

In Him - Jim

thanks for the heads up on safe eyes, I just downloaded it and it looks like i tdoes an excellent job. I really like all the features (time control, pop up blocker, etc) it has.

I realize that this thread is over 3 years old, but I wanted to write and let you know that God is still using it. First of all, I want to thank you all for treating each other with respect and brotherly love. It makes a difference. Most of all though I want to thank Jim for holding fast to the truth in Scripture and not bending to what can be very strong pressure from the culture. Jim, your words spoke to the deep conviction I have always held (surely planted deep in my heart by the Word itself) that total deliverance and freedom from porn was always possible. I just could never get there.

I struggled with lust pretty much my whole life and with porn for my entire Christian life of 15 years. I always hated my sin but could not break free from my addiction. The Wilkerson message was fantastic and was just what I needed. When it ended, I kept saying, through tears, "finally, someone who will simply tell me the truth!" It broke me, and I experienced a powerful move of God in real repentance. I am free now, and again, I simply wanted to thank you for your faithfulness and adherence to what the Word of God says and not man, the culture, or anything else. May Jesus receive all the glory!