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Joined: 2003/11/17
Posts: 56

 Victory in Spiritual Warfare

I posted a thread earlier about Spiritual Warfare, but due to my inexperience, I gave it an inappropriate title and it is now forgotten.

First of all, if more Christians would realize that there is a battle going on in the Spiritual realms, they would be shaken to their core. If they had any sense at all, they'd choose the side of Promise- the side of Jesus Christ. They would pursue purity, integrity, honesty, power, holiness, [u][i][b]WITH A PASSION[/b][/i][/u]
and they would not be moved.

We could rock this world with the power of God and destroy strongholds and we should all fight for the souls of those who are lost.

The battle is already won, it is a matter of time catching up to God. To fight we need to accept the victory over the devil in each situation and praise God.

It disturbs me to see so many that have been saved by Christ who are turning back to the world and losing a winning battle to addictions, fear, depression,or any other tool of the devil. There is victory not only possible, but [i][color=990033]ACTUAL[/color][/i]
We are more than conquerors!!! :-D :-D

I walk thru the hallways at my school and I see strongholds. I see victories ignored, I see victories achieved. I am aware of dark spiritual forces that will tempt me and all others, I am well aware of the victory that can be gained.
I am more than victorious thru Jesus Christ.

"Oh victory in Jesus, my savior, forever, He sought me, and He bought me with His redeeming blood, He loved me ere I knew Him and all my love is due Him- He plunged me to victory, beneath the cleansing flood"

Chad Lough

 2004/3/23 9:41Profile

 Re: Victory in Spiritual Warfare

"If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect [eklektos] those days will be shortened." Matt.

How can there be spiritual warfare if the outcome has already been decided by God? According to Matt. it is not possible for some to be saved and for others not to be saved. God already knows who will be saved and who not, so what can any of us do to affect any change in this? We can preach all day to the unelect, but will have no discernably different outcome. Moreover, the elect will be saved by God regardless of what they do. (Matt seems to be saying that the devil would have swayed the elect too, but God prevented this from happening.)

SO, what is left for us to decide or do? Nothing.

Thus, as it does not allow for free will or any actions that affect the final outcome, I abandon such prophesy as I quoted from Matt. It does a disservice to Christianity and to Jesus' profound teachings of love. If you read the Gospels you will see that most of Jesus' preaching is about how we should live. It is radical -- love your Enemies -- and points us to ways to defeat evil on earth. It is practical in that it makes us more productive and loving people. Moreover, those who have faith in Jesus and take up His cross and do His Loving work ARE the elect.

Do not wait for heaven or the promised land or for God to come down from the heavens on clouds. Work to bring it about the peaceable kingdom in the here and now and be comforted that, even if we fail, we are doing the work of God.


 2004/3/23 11:19

Joined: 2004/2/11
Posts: 60


Foreknowlege absolutely does [b]not[/b] require predestination or predetermination.

The predicament is a classic:

1. God knows everything, including the future.

2. People have free will to choose salvation or not.

How do we reconcile these two statements?

Look at it this way: What is the one person on this earth that knows you best? For most, this will be a parent or spouse. That person is very likely to know what you would do in any given situation, if they know you well.

God knows every person absolutely. He knows people better than they know themselves. Just because he knows whether or not a person will choose to accept salvation does not mean that that person is predestined to that choice. It's like a wife knowing what her husband will order at a restaurant before he actually does. Just because she knows that he will order buffalo wings doesn't mean that he was predestined to order the wings.

This sounds confusing, but it is the conclusion stated as best I can:

Whatever choice you decide to make, that is the choice you were going to make. As long as we don't know what choice we will end up making, we still have the freedom to make that choice.

Rereading this, it seems we have wandered a bit off-topic, so forgive me. I feel that it is very important that this be put in lest this issue challenge anyone's faith.

 2004/3/23 17:09Profile

Joined: 2003/11/17
Posts: 56


I agree with what you said about love. Those are the weapons we are to use! Love, compassion, grace, mercy, forgiveness--- all of it destroys whatever evil the enemy may build up.

However, I couldn't help but notice that your views sound nearly calvinistic. God knows the future and in the end He will be victorious, but He cannot control us if we choose not to let Him. God's will is not that anyone-you or I should perish- but that all should be saved thru and by Jesus Christ.
[i][color=0000CC][font=Courier]Free Will[/font][/color][/i]
It makes us different from machines. We have the freedom to choose whatever course we may--- but we have the great (and sometimes grave) responsibility of bearing the consequences of our actions.
A teenager is bored with his life and is fed up with rules rules, rules. His parents set the rules- (and expect Him to follow them...) but it is ultimately his choice whether to follow them or not.
This kid says "I'll do as I please!" and gets into crime, premarital sex, drugs, and his heart goes galavanting after the things of earth. His parents grieve and offer him help but he says "NO!!!" He'll have no part of it.
It's like that with God. He sets rules for us, for our own good, but we have the freedom to obey or disobey.
Jake- I pose this question---
If God predestined us to be saved or condemned to an eternal hell, why then did Adam, the first human, fall? Did God plan to make a flawed creation? Did He plan for Adam to betray Him?

I ask you this, also--- If God predestined us all before we ever had a chance- where then is mercy?
Where is grace? Where is the all-encompassing love of Jesus Christ that held Him on the cross? Does that mean that God so loved a select few, that He sent His only begotten Son that whosoever (of the select few...) believeth on Him shall not perish but have eternal life?

In SPIRITUAL WARFARE, we have the choice on how to fight each and every battle- each lustful look; each bitter thought; each idle, slanderous word; each selfish ambition. Either give in and indulge in our flesh or give ourselves into the saving hands of grace of Jesus Christ, and win. We have the [i][b]choice[/b][/i]to fight for those lost souls that God is longing for to return to Him.

Or do we stick our noses in the air and ignore them as you and I are the [i][b]"elect"[/b][/i]?

Chad Lough

 2004/3/25 10:08Profile

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